Daily #F1 News and Comment: Thursday 3rd July 2014

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Previously on TJ13:

#F1 Circuit Profile – 2014: Great Britain, Silverstone – Round 9

OTD Lite: 1982 – Didier Pironi wins his final Grand Prix

FIA Press Schedule

British GP Race Stewards

Monza replies to Ecclestone threat

Minardi reveals some staggering driver movement possibilities

Renault not to blame for Vettel’s Austria problem (GMM)

Hamilton claims more ‘ability’ than Rosberg (GMM)

TJ13 F1 innovation team(s)

Renault Sport F1 confirms Abiteboul

Button feeling the heat?

F1’s successor(s) when CVC leaves town?

Ferrari really trying hard to rebuild (GMM)

Haas joins F1 much sooner expected… as a sponsor

OTD Lite: 1982 – Didier Pironi wins his final Grand Prix

On this day – thirty two year ago, Didier Pironi triumphed at the Dutch Grand Prix held at the classic Zandvoort circuit. In what was proving a disturbing season for the Frenchman, Pironi must have felt relieved to take the chequered flag, once again, to secure his championship challenge.

That year every major incident had a connection with the young Parisian and to the weaker minded – could well have limited their desire to compete.

In pre-season testing, he had survived a huge testing accident that saw his car somersault and land in a spectator area. At Imola, he overtook Gilles Villeneuve and the French-Canadian’s car somersaulted causing fatal injuries at the following race meeting.

A month later, in Canada, Pironi’s stalled car was smashed into by Ricardo Paletti who succumbed to fatal injuries and in the three week break between races, Pironi suffered another huge accident similar in manner to his previous flight and that of his late team-mate. In Germany – during qualifying – he hit the rear of Alain Prost’s Renault in blinding rain.

It can only be imagined what goes through the mind as an accident begins to form, but having survived two horrific accidents, it’s likely he believed “here we go again” as his car took off over the slow moving car at Hockenheim that year.


FIA Press Schedule

Today, the start of the British GP weekend, we will see the drivers’ press conference and this will be attended by Valtteri Bottas, Jenson Button, (Super) Max Chilton, Lewis Hamilton, Daniil Kvyat and Felipe Massa. Two Wiliams drivers in the press conference? They must be doing something right!

Tomorrow afternoon will see the Team Principal’s press conference with Gerry Hughes, James Key, Jonathan Neale, Adrian Newey, Pat Symonds and Rob White in attendance. This is more like a technical press conference but it is good to see Gerry up there. Let’s see if we will be able to gain a better idea of who the new investors in Caterham are…


British GP Race Stewards


Dr Gerd Ennser has successfully combined his formal education in law with his passion for motor racing. While still active as a racing driver he began helping out with the management of his local motor sport club and since 2006 has been a permanent steward at every round of Germany’s DTM championship. Since 2010 he has also been a Formula One steward. Dr Ennser, who has worked as a judge, a prosecutor and in the legal department of an automotive-industry company, has also acted as a member of the steering committee of German motor sport body, the DMSB, since spring 2010, where he is responsible for automobile sport. In addition, Dr Ennser is a board member of the South Bavaria Section of ADAC, Germany’s biggest auto club.


As the son of former McLaren team principal Teddy Mayer, Tim Mayer grew up around motor sport. He organised IndyCar races internationally from 1992-98, aided the construction of several circuits, and produced international TV for multiple series. In 1998 he became CART’s Senior VP for Racing Operations. He also became VP of ACCUS, the US ASN. In 2003, Mayer became COO of IMSA, operating multiple series at all levels, and also took on the role of COO and Race Director of the American Le Mans Series. He was elected an independent Director of ACCUS and FIA US Alternate Delegate, responsible for US World Championship events.

From 187 grand prix starts Mansell took 32 pole positions, 31 victories and 28 other podium finishes. He raced for Team Lotus, Williams, Ferrari and McLaren, winning the FIA Formula One World Champion in 1992 with Williams. The following season Mansell took a sabbatical from F1, racing in the CART championship. He become the first rookie to win that title and the only man to hold the Formula One and CART titles simultaneously. Mansell is a four-times winner of the British Grand Prix, with three of those victories coming at Silverstone.


Monza replies to Ecclestone threat

In recent days, as is his want, Bernie Ecclestone has threatened the Monza circuit with the loss of the Italian Grand Prix when their current contract runs out in 2016. Ferrari have not commented on the outburst yet and there is some speculation that this would allow them to put forward their own Mugello circuit as a replacement venue.

With a rumoured cost of EUR 8 million a year for Monza’s hosting fee, this is reflected in the weekend ticket passes that generally work out to around half of the UK’s price for the equivalent British Grand Prix. The cynic may also add, that if the Monza authorities were to charge substantially more, the public would ‘find’ other ways of getting into the circuit as this writer has witnessed himself.

With Canada having negotiated a deal for 10 million per annum and the Nurburgring having avoided paying any hosting fee last year, it seems that this is the first salvo as a desperate Mr E struggles to retain control of a series that seems to be tiring of his bullying tactics.

As has been evidenced with all the latest additions to the championship, the Indian, South Korean and Turkish governments (amongst others) are not looking to invest in his business model anymore and are voting by withdrawing backing for their respective events.

Surprisingly the Italian associations have responded publicly with a passive statement – although to believe they will capitulate so easily is to misunderstand the game that is currently being conducted.

The president of the Automobile Club d’Italia, Angelo Sticchi Damiani stated earlier: “Ecclestone is right when he speaks of the disastrous commercial consequences of the contract and here I have to admit that Enrico Ferrari has worked wonders in securing such an advantageous deal.

However these privileged conditions don’t apply anymore and we have to open the purse strings to also invest in the circuit both in terms of technical and sporting development. This would only be possible with a joint effort between the ACI and the institution. Monza has a great ally in Jean Todt and the FIA president knows that Monza has great value.”

Monza’s circuit chief Frederico Bendinelli, agrees and is set to deal with Mr E on behalf of the S.I.A.S. “I know Ecclestone and his tactics. The problem with Monza is that the contract was signed some years ago and is less profitable for him.

This explains his words, but we will not under-estimate his threat. Just think of Spa, a track amongst the most prestigious yet for some years was excluded from the calendar. Still we have a number of favourable advantages, we are still the biggest contributor to the FIA and thanks to Ferrari we have a specific historic value.”

Bernie has known for decades that Ferrari is central to Formula One and whenever there has been negotiations in regards to the Concorde Agreement, or the threat of a breakaway series, he has always employed the same tactics. Divide and conquer and keep the Maranello squad happy come what may… let the shenanigans begin.


Minardi reveals some staggering driver movement possibilities

In the UK we have got used to listening to the ramblings of a certain Eddie Jordan, whereas in Italy they have the pleasure of listening to the equally baffling musings from the former team owner Giancarlo Minardi.

As Formula One returns to the historic Northamptonshire circuit, Minardi reminisced about his cars finishing in 5th and 6th positions in 1990 a result which would he believes is comparable to a podium finish these days.

As to the 2014 championship fight: “Rosberg will have to defend against a good driver who will have home support but the other Mercedes PU users will not want to stand idly by as watching the fight. Sadly the Ferrari and Renault teams are experiencing very few heady days but something may happen. Such as the weather which is changeable in England and as we know can change the result.”

As ever after rambling on about things that everyone knows about he offered an insight into possible moves within what is traditionally called the silly season.

On the driver front, this summer could prove explosive. At Red Bull, we have Sebastian Vettel who is possibly being lined up to be ejected from the team to be replaced with the new young stars like Kyvat and Sainz Jr. Ultimately for a company that thrives on it’s marketing it is also understandable the passing of the baton.

Don’t be surprised if there are moves within the Mercedes team. Hamilton is not happy with the situation and Toto Wollf is still a shareholder at Williams and manages Valtteri Bottas. The Finn is demonstrating his speed and technical abilities in his driving and I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Rosberg – Botta partnership at Mercedes.

This would also suit the Mclaren-Honda combination which wants a top driver to line up alongside Magnussen. This summer could well suffocate the headlines with the possibilities surrounding Button-Vettel-Hamilton-Bottas.”


Renault not to blame for Vettel’s Austria problem (GMM)

Renault was not solely to blame for Sebastian Vettel’s problems in Austria last time out. The reigning world champion suffered a momentary loss of drive in the opening stages of the race at the Red Bull Ring, later retiring to save “mileage” Team boss Christian Horner said it was an “engine electrical issue, which we are yet to understand what caused it”. But when speaking with reporters immediately after the race, he made clear where his finger was pointing, saying engine supplier Renault’s service in 2014 has been “unacceptable”.

According to Germany’s Auto Motor und Sport, however, Horner was wrong to blame Renault for Vettel’s problem in Austria. Renault engine boss Rob White confirmed that when the German pressed the “overtake button”, the “standard electronics” failed to properly interpret the message. The ‘standard electronics’ in all F1 cars is supplied by McLaren subsidiary MES.

The Italian correspondent for Autosprint, Alberto Antonini, explained: “When Sebastian pressed the ‘OT’ button for more power, the system entered a kind of self-protection (mode).” He said the Ferraris had an “eerily similar” problem in the opening stages of the Australian grand prix.

TJ13 comment: This is not ‘NEW’ information, here at TJ13 towers we published this last Thursday under the “FIA software causes problems again” tab. Once again, where TJ13 leads…


Hamilton claims more ‘ability’ than Rosberg (GMM)

Lewis Hamilton has stepped up the off-track battle ahead of his home grand prix, declaring he has “the edge” on teammate Nico Rosberg on sheer “ability“. It is the latest barb in the psychological war between the Mercedes drivers, as Hamilton faces the task of closing down German Rosberg’s 29-point championship lead over the remaining eleven grands prix.

According to the Daily Star newspaper, Hamilton suggested much of his points deficit is due simply to his two technical retirements in 2014. He doubts Rosberg will strike the same trouble. “That would mean in the next 11 races Nico would need to have two he does not finish, and I do not think that is going to happen,” said the 2008 world champion. “I cannot rely on that, I just have to focus on doing better than him, which I am capable of. The edge I have is in my ability. That is the gift I have and I have to utilise it this year more than ever,” said Hamilton.

Hamilton is expounding a common theory in the F1 paddock — that he has the slight edge on Rosberg in terms of sheer pace. But another equally-common tale is that Rosberg often makes up for any deficit with a more calculating approach. “Nico Rosberg is fast when he needs to be fast,” agreed quadruple world champion Alain Prost, whose style of winning his four world championships earned him the nickname ‘The Professor’.

“Above all he is very clever,” Prost told Germany’s Auto Bild Motorsport. “Even when he had problems with the car in Canada, he kept his cool and brought the car home. That’s the difference. It may be that Lewis Hamilton is just a bit faster, but Nico has the better overall package,” he said.

Also well-placed to comment is Felipe Massa, who went head-to-head with Hamilton in 2008, and came tantalisingly close to depriving the Briton of his sole title. “Lewis was a driver that maybe lost under the pressure when he was fighting for the championship in 2007 and 2008, but maybe he has a little bit more experience now,” the Brazilian told the Daily Mail. “I don’t know if that will help or not, but for sure he has more pressure now than Nico.”

TJ13 comment: Young man…. don’t believe the hype!

It is perhaps surprising that the newspapers haven’t sought out comments from a driver that couldn’t compete with him on sheer speed but practically matched him pound for pound over three point scoring seasons.

Jenson Button had better reliability over the same period but as suggested before, maybe Hamilton’s rhythm of driving actually pushes his car beyond it’s natural level of reliability – but we are digressing – Rosberg ultimately is a faster driver than Jenson Button – period. In Canada – one of Hamilton’s favourite tracks, he out-qualified him and continued the process of unbalancing Hamilton.


TJ13 F1 innovation team(s)

Tata Communications have announced the first F1® Connectivity Innovation Prize challenge is now LIVE!


Challenge 1 invites you to demonstrate new and insightful information that can be derived from the live data feeds supplied by Formula One Management, calling upon entrants to create a new visual package to add suspense and excitement to the audience experience.

TJ13 is considering entering a team(s) and attempting to connect people via Google hangout to debate the challenge and solutions.

Clearly challenge 1 will affect what we as TV viewers see during races – and it would be good to draw on experience from people across the global TJ13 community on how their national broadcasters deal with such information for their national racing series.

If you are interested please contact us via the contact us section.


Renault Sport F1 confirms Abiteboul

Today Renault Sport F1 confirmed the departure of their President and Managing Director Mr. Jean-Michel Jalinier who is retiring due to ‘personal reasons’.

He is replaced by Jérôme Stoll who will take on the role in addition to his current responsibilities as Chief Performance Officer and Group Sales and Marketing Director. Ex Caterham Team Principal Cyril Abiteboul has been appointed to fill a newly-created position of Managing Director of Renault Sport F1, reporting to Jérôme Stoll.

Abiteboul graduated from the Institut National Polytechnique de Grenoble. He joined Renault in 2001 and was named Development Director of Renault F1 Team in 2007, before becoming Executive Director in 2010. In September 2012, Cyril Abiteboul moved to the Formula 1 team Caterham as General Manager.

We now wait with baited breath to see what influence Abiteboul will have on the engine for 2015.


Button feeling the heat?

Jenson ButtonAfter hearing the rather stern words of McLaren boss Dennis and that K-Mag has given him a “wake-up call“, Button appears to be feeling the heat and felt it necessary to defend himself in an interview with UK publication Daily Mail.

Speaking at the launch of McLaren sponsor Santander’s Student Account Button made the point that he is giving it all and that the whole team needs to deliver to win. “I think everyone has to try harder, the whole team, we all need to try harder.

If we want to get back to the front, if we want to win races, then we have got to try harder. We are doing an OK job right now. We are working hard, but to get back to the front, from the management down, we all have to try harder and get the best out of ourselves so that is hopefully what every one is doing and I definitely am.

When asked if the criticism was fair a ‘confident’ Button replied, “For me, the important thing is I have true belief in myself and I am giving it my all.

Believing in yourself and believing in the team, that is the most important thing. When I come out of a tough weekend with the team, I sit down with them, we discuss what happened, we more forward and we try and find a way out of it and try and improve ourselves and that is they way we are going to win races. That is the way we are going to win races; all working as one to get better.

There you have it Ron, he is working harder and so should you… work as a team that is, so stop attacking him?


F1’s successor(s) when CVC leaves town?

As current Formula One supremo Mr E is battling the Germans in Munich rumours are rive that CVC has had enough and are looking to cash in on their very lucrative tenure in the sport.

Step forward our protagonists, rumoured to be the teams (if they can find the money), Red Bull, Canadian businessman Lawrence Stroll (Tommy Hilfiger) who apparently has Ferrari on board, a group led by Gerard Lopez and John Malone, US cable billionaire.

The most likely candidate is reportedly Malone but who is he?

john-maloneJohn Malone, international man of mystery and potential owner of F1 is also an international man of history. Back in 1996, he ran one of the largest cable companies in America (as he still does), which he had grown by buying up small rural companies running them ruthlessly (or efficiently if you prefer bloodless corporate speak) and effectively. Rupert Murdoch, fresh from terrorising the British press, needed more, and had set his sights firmly on the colonies as being ripe for the plucking. So he hired Roger Ailes, fresh from his ouster at NBC, to create a News show that would compete with the likes of CNN and MSNBC. They would call it “Fox News”

The main difficulty they encountered was nobody wanted it. There was already a CNN and an MSNBC and the cable companies were paying them for content, which was (and remains to a large extent) the business model on which they operated. So content producers like ESPN were able to extract large quantities of cash (as they still are) from cable operators because their programming guaranteed viewers in a very reliable way.

As with many of his endeavours, Murdoch solved his problem with lots and lots of money, rumoured to be in the neighbourhood of $200 million dollars. This was the amount reputedly paid to Malone to air Fox News on his cable networks. And it became successful far beyond their wildest imaginings, influencing events including presidential elections.

Recent reports are that Malone has launched a $4 billion bid to buy almost half the F1 business from CVC. Could we see a repeat of the partnership that changed the broadcasting face of America? Malone believes strongly in competition, but is perfectly happy to cooperate if it makes him more money and his history with Murdoch could see them together again in the racing business. Will he and Murdoch form a partnership and bring affordable streaming and 21st century technology to F1 if Malone succeeds in his bid? It’s impossible to know, but if he does it won’t be because he believes the fans should have greater access to the sport, it will be because it makes money for John Malone.


Ferrari really trying hard to rebuild (GMM)

Ferrari has set its million-dollar sights on luring Ross Brawn back to Formula One. That is the claim on Thursday of the Milan daily Corriere della Sera, reporting that the 59-year-old has been offered EUR 5 million per season if he comes back to the sport with a prominent role at the famous Italian team.

Brawn stepped back from F1 at the end of last season, having led the Mercedes team to the cusp of its current dominance. Before that, he was team boss at Honda, and after the Japanese carmaker withdrew he took over the Brackley outfit and won the 2009 title as ‘Brawn GP’.

The burly Briton is, however, perhaps best known for being technical director at Ferrari during the ultra-successful Michael Schumacher era until 2006.

Speculation he might abandon retirement with a new prominent role at Maranello surfaced in May, when he was spotted at Ferrari’s headquarters. But he insisted he was only there “with a group of friends as part of a tour of Italy — no more than that!

TJ13 Comment: How much truth can be behind this offer? Newey was rumoured to be offered £20m by Ferrari to join them and it’s not like Brawn needs the money so Ferrari should perhaps dig a bit deeper.


Haas AutomationThis afternoon Haas Automation officially joined F1 as a sponsor of Ferrari. The company’s logos will adorn the red Ferrari cars of Alonso and Raikkonen until the end of 2015 on the eve of 2016 when Haas is expected to enter his own team under the Haas banner.

Speaking of the deal Mattiacci said, “We are pleased to welcome Haas Automation as our newest Official Supplier. This agreement strengthens our existing connections with the USA, an important market not only for our company, but also for Scuderia Ferrari, as it is one where the team already benefits from several important partnerships.

Over the past few months, we have been exploring with Haas a number of potential areas of collaboration, and this agreement is an immediate opportunity that we are pursuing, which proves Haas’ interest in Formula One. This collaboration will enable Haas Automation to reinforce its brand awareness and promote its products and services around the world, thanks to the appeal of Scuderia Ferrari and the global reach of Formula One.

We are therefore delighted to make this announcement, which sees another premium brand join our portfolio of partners. In parallel, but as a separate project, Haas is committed to entering Formula One with its own team, a testimony to the growing appeal of our sport in the USA and on this front, technical discussions are ongoing between us.

Well now, Caterham goes for sale yet Haas is not interested, rather, he’d sponsor Ferrari… Perhaps the maths do not stack up 100% after all..


110 responses to “Daily #F1 News and Comment: Thursday 3rd July 2014


    Cool Sat & Sun

    19 – 20C

    Cloud and rain clearing on Saturday afternoon, then sunny spells with scattered showers through the period, perhaps heavy and thundery. A risk of more persistent rain later …..


  2. If you want to stay relevant (sort of) and be in the limelight, what you do is start sharing your controversial opinions all the time, sharing the various rumours you hear about. What then happens, is that some of it comes true and then you bang your drum saying ‘I told you so’. You then become a ‘character’ and people keep coming to hear your musings. They won’t always take you seriously, but it’s amusing.

    I guess that’s where Minardi comes in.

    • For a moment I thought you were going to end “I guess that’s where TJ13 comes in.” !

  3. Minardi’s driver moves: Interesting… However, I’d like to know why Hamilton would even consider moving back to McLaren given their atrocious technical record over the past couple of years. Let’s face it. It’s not a team on the rise like Williams.

    • Williams can only rise as high up as no 2 to Merc. The only reason they’re so competitive is Toto’s shares and Merc helping them with integrating the engine with the chassis.

      On the other hand, if Honda produce a strong engine and competitive to Merc, McLaren can become a title-challenger once again. There’s no substitute for being a works team.

      On the whole Williams competitiveness this year, maybe that’s prompted Minardi for his Bottas to Merc comments. The impression formed is that Toto sides with Nico and Lauda…maybe with Lewis. Toto is a very clever man. I believe his agenda is to keep Nico, oust Lewis, bring in Bottas and maybe convince Williams to give his wife more time behind the wheel there.

      • I think Lewis moving back to McLaren would be good for him, and the timing would be good for him too. Honda a year+ to spend developing their F1 engine, whilst looking to see what others have done and they don’t have the same restrictions development wise. If anything it’s wholly unfair that that’s allowed to happen (same applies if RBR buy the Renault F1 engine facility and come up with a new branded engine).

        F1 2014 onwards is all about power units, this season has demonstrated that. Lewis & Nico aren’t massively better this year all of a sudden, they’ve just got a car that has a bigger performance advantage than anything the sport has seen for 20 years+.

        I think the issue with Lewis at Mercedes is that the team isn’t completely focused on him. When McLaren got Button in suddenly he had a team mate who wasn’t treated like a second class citizen, the team always used to give Heikki seconds in terms of parts and strategy, whilst Alonso? Well that’s well documented, but it was obvious the team didn’t help him at times. Now Lewis is at Merc and Rosberg is getting a fair crack of the whip. I don’t think that Lewis likes that. Add on top of that the Merc management are surely sat there wondering why they’re paying Lewis something like $15m more than Nico Rosberg. For that sort of pay discrepancy (which isn’t to be sniffed at) you’d want the better paid guy to absolutely hammer the other guy – that’s not happened, even taking out the car failures, it’s a far closer battle than it should be. Then we throw in the whole Monaco affair, where Lewis (rightly or wrongly) insinuated his team mate was a cheat and that was compounded by then accusing his team of not pitting him at the right time as though they were against him. It’s almost like a 101 on how not to impress your employer – the employer who is providing by far the best kit in the business and paying you more than anyone on the grid bar one Ferrari driver.

        • Did you read that before you pressed send?…

          Not one bit of it made any sense.

          He beat Nico last season and this season far, all things being equal, is actually doing a better job than Nico. Obviously everyone will say otherwise because of the points gap, but a closer look would actually show a different picture. Remove the DNFs and you’ll find that Lewis has scored 136pts in comparison to 108 for Nico in the races they’ve both finished. Yes he has made a few uncharacteristic errors in qualifying in the last 3 races, but yet your overall assessment holds no merit.

          Prior to the Monaco debacle, the guy has done nothing but give credit to the team and what they’re doing so far.

          How about waiting until the season is over before you start questioning why he’s paid so much, why he’s not destroying his teammate etc.

          • Would Rosberg being told by Brawn not to pass Hamilton in Malaysia last year fall into the “all things being equal” category?

          • That was the team making a decision. All things being equal is in reference to the DNFs.

            By the way, what was the reason Brawn gave as to why that decision was made? What did Ross say to Nico over the radio during the race? What was Lewis’s response when he was asked about it?

          • “All things being equal is in reference to the DNFs.”

            Rosberg had 3 DNF’s last year while Hamilton had 1. Had the DNF’s been equal and without the team orders at Malaysia, Rosberg would likely have outscored Hamilton.

          • Cav…

            The bulk of me statement is in reference to this season not last.

            But I noticed you didn’t answer any of the questions I asked you in relation to the Malaysian race last year.

          • “But I noticed you didn’t answer any of the questions I asked you in relation to the Malaysian race last year.”

            Brawn was worried that Hamilton but not Rosberg would run out of fuel.

            Hamilton who got a podium said after the race, “If I’m honest I really feel that Nico should be standing here.” Which was an admission he didn’t deserve 3rd

          • But also, Hamilton’s tyre blew out at Silverstone. It could be said this was from being aggressive on the sawtooth kerb, and that teams were running outside of Pirelli’s limits. In my mind, I would give Rosberg 3rd at Malaysia and Hamilton the Silverstone win, making it 2-1 to Hamilton in wins in 2013. Poles 5-3 to Hamilton.

            The interesting aspect is how the pace flowed between both drivers in 2013 – back and forth in the opening races, a Rosberg streak to Monaco victory, Hamilton streak from Canada, with his brakes coming in, then back to Rosberg at the season end, once development switched to 2014, characterised by post-Europe onwards.

          • Podiums would be 5-5 each and with a retirement less for Rosberg they could be very close on final points.

          • Hamilton is 29 points behind Rosberg at the moment. If we assume he had finished the races where he had DNF, even if he had come second to Rosberg, he would be 7 points ahead now. The DNF were not his fault, but down to mechanical/computer errors. So it would seem he is as good if not better than Rosberg.

          • Apologies I made the error of not making it HamFanBoy friendly before pressing post, a cardinal sin in the lead up to the British GP week !

            ” Remove the DNFs and you’ll find that Lewis has scored 136pts in comparison to 108 for Nico in the races they’ve both finished.”

            Look at it from a points per finish perspective (even including that DNF for Lewis in 2013 which was a racing incident rather than car failure) and you’ll find that Nico outscored Lewis overall when the car didn’t fail in 2013.

            Nico 2014: 20.65 ppr (points per race finish)
            Lewis 2014: 22.66 ppr

            Nico 2013: 11.40 ppr
            Lewis 2013: 11.11 ppr

            So I think it’s entirely justified to ask why the guy so many say is the best in the sport can’t comprehensively beat the journeymen that are Rosberg and Button?

            Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not saying Nico is better than Lewis, I’m just giving potential reasons why Mercedes might not be happy with the return on it’s Hamilton investment.

          • Nico did have a lot of retirements last year, I remember that. It effectively put him behind right from the start.. a bit like Lewis now. So Lewis will have to hold his nerve and come back at him.. the difference now is Nico applying pressure on Lewis, whereas last year they were both trying to beat others. With 2011, it also felt like Button was trying to beat Lewis than chase Vettel (who was too far ahead).

          • But have not shown anything why they would not be happy with his performance.

            Your analysis for 2013 should only be used as a baseline, given that it was his first season in the team. Look at what’s happening to Kimi at Ferrari? He’s having trouble adjusting to a car that he’s not use to.

            So for the 2013 season, the APP for both driver is a fair reflection and a good place to start.

            Now my this season, they’re both in the same situation, whereby it’s a completely new car, rules and so forth.

            I’ve never once said or implied that Lewis should be wiping the floor with Nico, that would be a stupid thing to do. All I’ve said is, that it’s unfair for everyone to say that he’s got the advantage over Lewis, given that he has been able to finish every race so far. And in the races that they have both finished, he has out scored by 28pts. He gained 43pts based on those DNFs and now his lead is down to 29, thus giving Lewis a net 14pts gained on those lost points.

            Yes I a massive Lewis fan, but I’m not blind nor am I unable to be objective with my comments. But when you’ve got Cav spouting his usual biased opinions, sure I’ll offer a different opinion to his. But that’s how it is on here, if your a fan of a driver and you don’t go along with the views of those who dislike him, for whatever reason that maybe, then your called names (fanboy) or sworn at.

            But at the end of the day, majority of the comments being expressed, are just opinions. And as we know, “opinions without facts, are exactly that, opinions”

          • Fortis, if Nico beats Lewis this weekend will you at least consider the possibility that Lewis is not God?

          • I really don’t care if he wins on Sunday or not, I’m more interested in who lifts the trophy at the end of the season. So feel free to continue with your attempt at being sarcastic or whatever it is your trying to achieve. It won’t make me support him anymore or any less, just because you and those who find him unworthy of being supported by his fans.

          • Lewis really does need the mental lift of winning at home though, a bit like in 2008 when it helped him take on the Ferraris. He can then take this momentum on to Hungary, and a showdown at Singapore, where both have been fast in the past.

          • Actually, Fortis, I wasn’t being sarcastic, I’m just curious. Oh, and thanks for suggesting the name change a few days ago!!! I took your advice.

    • “… I’d like to know why Hamilton would even consider moving back to McLaren given their atrocious technical record over the past couple of years. … ”
      Possible reasons, after he is beaten this year fairly or unfairly by Rosberg with German/Mercedes conspiracy theories of “trickery”, Lewis will move because:
      1. of money on table from Ron.
      2. no one else wants him, or will have him even as a pay-driver.

      • ….”2. no one else wants him, or will have him even as a pay-driver.”…

        I have to admit, that’s some really funny stuff

      • We have Chilton and possibly Palmer for the pay-drivers.. I can’t see Hamilton raising sponsorship (although surely he could I imagine).. Yes I know this is in jest 😀

        Seriously though, I can’t see McLaren matching Mercedes for salary unless Honda are putting in a lot of it as well. But they want a WDC so may back that up.

  4. The constant Jenson bashing is getting tiresome. Note: I’m not a Button faboy, I’m a McLaren fan all the way.

    “Rosberg ultimately is a faster driver than Jenson Button – period.”

    Ridiculous statement considering the only thing you can be measured against is your team mate and as far as I recall, Rosberg and Button have never been team mates. What data/proof do you have to back that up? None I would wager.

    Granted, he’s not the best when the car isn’t to his exact style but give him a car to suit and he’s a good as anyone.

    • “Granted, he’s not the best when the car isn’t to his exact style but give him a car to suit and he’s a good as anyone.”

      I agree “Granted, he’s not the best”. In fact, I think he is vastly overrated.

      He is in 15th year of his F1 career. He has had 8 pole positions, of which 4 were in 2009 when the Brawn car was miles faster than any competitor, and only one of those poles was with McLaren.

      Jenson would make an excellent politician. He talks the talk, period.

        • If you want reminding, have a look at f1fanatics web site which has statistics for 2010 to 2014 on each driver’s form against their team mate.

          Jenson is sooooooo sloooooooooow.

          Even Perez as a newbie in Mclaren manages to catch up and pass Jenson’s form after a few races settling in with McLaren.

          • @ landroni :
            There are a number of of sources for race by race data, including raw data and charts on f1fanatic .

          • F1Fanatic and James Allen race analyses are ‘must see’ for the race charts. For example, it shows that Bottas could have contended for the win in Austria, if Williams were more aggressive with him, while Massa was doing his best to hang on to 4th, with higher tyre deg on softs.

          • They also show that Jenson is 0.3 sec slower than Kevin atm across qualifying this year.. Jenson’s pace is slowing this year and last, like Raikkonen too.. happens when you reach 35 I guess. But they were very strong at consistency/no mistakes in 2011, 12-13 to make up for that. 2011 might have been Button’s last ‘peak’.

          • The whole ‘driver-bashing’ debate fails to take into account many variables. It is an impossible task to compare drivers at different stages of their careers, in different machinery, over many years.
            If, for example, Senna was so amazing why did he not win every single race he entered? Why did he not beat every team mate at every grand prix? Because, sometimes, you’re not having a great day, or there’s an issue with the car, or that track suits your team mate’s driving style, or the regulations have produced a car that’s not suited to your style, or you get a puncture, or you get wiped out by a racing incident or back marker, etc., etc.. Welcome to motorsport!!
            Regarding Button, for instance, it’s all too easy to harp on about how undeserving a World Champion he is but, to my mind, a World Champion is simply the driver who maximised their opportunities to score points more than the rest of the field within the constraints of that years’ rules and the development cycles of their respective teams. Button knew that there would be scant resources for development during the latter half of the season, so maxed-out on wins when the car was capable of such a feat. If the Brawn had been merely average for the first half of the season, then Button had won six of the final seven races to secure the title then we would, by now, all be bored of hearing about ‘one of the greatest and most unexpected championship wins of recent times’.

          • “happens when you reach 35 I guess.”
            Hey! It’s more likely that Button just isn’t as enthusiastic at the prospect of dragging the McLaren around to another 9th place finish.

          • Don’t get me wrong.. I have Button down as deserving champion of 2009. I would also chalk it up to Honda.. but if they stayed in charge they probably would have lost it to Vettel, who was oh so close…

            Button’s just past his peak now.. IMO, he was ‘best of the rest’ in 2002, 2004.. unlucky not to get his first podium and win in both years.. finally coming in 2006, then WDC in 2009 and McLaren peak in 2011.

            Same for Raikkonen.. peaks in 03-05, 07-08, 12-13, but now age is taking its toll. I think I rate Raikkonen higher than most fans do.. really he is unlucky not to have 26 or more wins.. he could easily be in the top 10 winners’ list, if the Mercedes engine held up more often in the mid-2000s, and likely a 2x WDC to boot at least.

            Both will go down as legends of the sport and Raikkonen perhaps as a Mansell (unlucky not to win more WDCs), same for Alonso. Button will be more like Hunt or Rosberg, just one chance and took it, with some other competitive periods. Massa like Reutemann, there or thereabouts, but missing that one golden chance. Webber like a Jones who fluffed, rather than took, the one chance, perhaps a bit late in his career.

            These are also the last guys to make it past 30 purely on merit.. soon we’ll see pay drivers having a lasting career and making it to ‘veteran’ status.. whereas recently this was reserved for only the real talents that made it to the top of F1 on merit.

          • True Mark, but if so, then that’s the tell-tale sign that it’s time for handing the baton on to Stoffel and taking the managerial pay-check instead. Although next year’s package might be more appetising than this one..

        • @Paul. When Checo lost his seat at McLaren last year Jo Ramirez said he was disappointed of him because he didn’t understand that he wasn’t hired to match Jenson but to be faster than him. Ramirez suggested that McLaren was very aware of Jenson limitations and was looking from somebody fast to drive the other car, at the end they fired Sergio because they already had a driver capable of producing his results in Jenson. That´s in line with what McLaren said of Sergio, that they were replacing him because they thought that was as fast as he would be. So is not that an average driver can match them but that a fast driver can sometimes be just average too.

  5. Hamilton’s Australian GP dnf was from a fault before he got to the grid, factory defect in the sparkplug insulation. How can driving style be responsible for that?
    The canadian dnf was a fluke. Rosberg was told how to drive the car only after Hamilton’s brake failure.
    Hamilton was driving with more rear ward brake bias which Rosberg even switched to, hence his rear brakes had taken more stress. This was okay but the ers failure made it worse.
    Lets not forget, the ERS failed first on Hamiltons car before it did on Rosberg’s. Doing an extra lap on worn tyres will require even more braking effort unlike Rosberg who stopped earlier.
    With the ECU it is very difficult for a driver to induce any failure in the engines or gearboxes.

    • “Doing an extra lap on worn tyres will require even more braking effort unlike Rosberg who stopped earlier.”

      Nah you’ve got that wrong. Worn tyres require less braking effort to lock as they have less grip, thus running on worn tyres is easier on your brakes.

      • @ **Paul**

        totally agree

        but fanboys have to make up things and modify the truth to try and justify their deluded beliefs …..

        @ JohnMane

        maybe you should listen to this ?

        Mercedes’ Executive Director (Technical) Paddy Lowe explains to BBC F1 analyst Allan McNish, that the problems Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg suffered in Canada were due to a faulty component in the power unit.

        Hamilton suffered total brake failure during the Canadian Grand Prix and was forced to retire, while team-mate Nico Rosberg limped home in second.

        Lowe explained the team were able to nurse Rosberg to the chequered flag, and could have won the race had it not been for the Force India suffering similar brake problems and allowing the Red Bull of Daniel Ricciardo to go past.


      • How can driving at over a 100mph on worn tyres require less braking effort?

        It has no grip, so if you apply the same brake pressure as you would if it was a more grippy tyre, there’s no way you’d be able to brake from the same distance. Having worn tyres with no grip, requires far more braking pressure. So you’re actually wrong and it won’t be easier on the brakes.

        • Actually, I think it’s neither. Assuming that the two cars are driving at the same speed down the straight (seems reasonable) and that they have to get to the same speed to get round the following corner (arguable with less grip on Lewis’s car) then they have decelerated the same amount.

          Doesn’t that mean that the brakes have done exactly the same amount of work – even if one is short and hard and the other is slightly longer and softer…?

          Maybe my o-level physics is letting me down 😉

          • “Maybe my o-level physics is letting me down.”

            Yes, me too.

            I am lost by Paul’s comment “Worn tyres require less braking effort to lock as they have less grip, thus running on worn tyres is easier on your brakes.”

          • On worn tyres if you hit the brakes as hard as you do on new tyres you’d simply lock up. You can’t hit the brakes as hard with old tyres as new tyres. You’ve got to brake earlier and with less pressure. That means the heat going into the brakes is distributed over a marginally longer period and is less severe. Ergo braking on worn tyres is easier to cope with than on new tyres which grip incredibly well, and allow you to slam those anchors on.

          • Just to add to what you said…

            If there’s no grip in the tyres, I’d assume that the braking distance would be a lot earlier than it would be had it newer tyres. Similar to the incident between Massa and Perez in Canada.

          • I think everyone is sort of saying the same thing. If you have less grip (from worn tires) you have to brake earlier and less hard. The amount of energy removed by the brakes is, as Tim says, the same, but the energy is removed over a longer period of time hence the instantaneous energy of braking is less. The braking force will be less but over a longer period of time. The brakes brakes should run cooler by extending the braking distance/reducing the braking effort. Of course, lap times will suffer.

          • You are not suggesting there is a huge differences in the length of braking zones, are you? So the braking time will only differ by milliseconds.

            Since the total energy converted to heat is the same but spread over a difference of only milliseconds, the brakes will heat up the same amount at the end of the braking zone.

            hence the difference in time to cool the brakes for the two scenarios should be insignificant.

            However, if the first car is running in ambient air and the second car is running close behind the wake in hotter air, the second car’s brakes will take longer to cool down.

            That is where the driver’s intelligence plays a part.

            Watch Alonso chasing his prey – he usually leaves approx 3 seconds gap for a few laps to conserve his brakes and tyres, and then he pounces when the right opportunity arises.

          • ” That is where the driver’s intelligence plays a part. ”

            PK – are you implying this is where Hamilton fails – by having the nose of his car up Rosberg’s gearbox all the time ?

            i.e. – Lewis is a bit thick ……. ?

          • @ Don



            having all the mentally deranged and deluded #TeamLH –

            Hammy the hamster fanboys on my back is …..

            a bit like being savaged by a dead sheep 😉

          • Actually, it could differ by more than a few milliseconds; it’s complex, however. When the car starts braking from high speed the deceleration might be on the order of 4g, but as speed is lost so is downforce and in a slow corner at the end of the braking zone mechanical grip will be the determining factor for retardation. What is the grip of a tire? Something around 1.5g with no downforce? 90 kph is 25 m/sec, so if the car is braking 15 meters earlier, we might see a difference of .5 sec or so. I haven’t run the math, as the deceleration is constantly changing and I’m not in the mood for calc right now, but yes, I think there could very well be cooler brakes because of earlier and lighter braking. I also agree it might be minor.

      • Is this lineair?
        What if I brake longer but less hard instead of harder and shorter?
        I can imagine that in some circumstances brakes wear harder when the tyres are more worn.
        But probably the amount of fuel also has a big impact.

        • in your analogy

          longer but less hard


          harder vs shorter

          if you measure force vs time

          50 x 2


          25 x 4

          both equal = 100

          but the defining factor in braking is not the brakes – or force applied – but the coefficient of friction between the tyres and the track.

          lower grip would mean you will brake with less force before locking up

          so I can’t ever see a situation where ” brakes wear harder when the tyres are more worn. “

          • What I wonder if 2 x 50 and 4 x 25 produce the same wear. Temperature rising is probably non-lineair and I think it’s entirely possible that pressing the brakes longer but softer produces more heat, and in turn more wear.

          • more heat doesn’t mean more wear

            sorry – your theory doesn’t hold water

          • I’d be interested in a pirelli response to this. I wonder if heat affects the compound in any way (which it would) enough to influence wear.

            There’s so many variables that affect wear that I’d be surprised if heat over a period of time wasn’t one of them.

            Its probably a very small factor, relative to driving style, circuit abrasiveness levels etc – the stuff we talk about most when discussing wear.

  6. Button feeling the heat? Frankly I think Ron Dennis needs to wind his neck back in and recognise that despite being handed utterly useless cars for two seasons now Button has been remarkably supportive of McLaren and acted professionally at all times. In fact – if anyone is responsible for their lousy performace it Dennis himself. After all, he appointed Martin Whitmarsh whilst Dennis himself was off gallavanting playing the big boss game. If I was a McLaren shareholder I’d be looking at his position not Button’s.

    • ” … After all, he appointed Martin Whitmarsh whilst Dennis himself was off gallavanting playing the big boss game. … ”

      I thought Ron had been removed from F1 activities by the Board, and that he was only able to make a comeback to F1 and get rid of Whitmarsh after regaining enough support of the Board.

      ” …. Dennis has been in dispute with Whitmarsh over the past two years and has tried to remove his former protege from his position on several occasions, but failed because of his fractured relationship with the other board members. It is not clear how that relationship has been repaired. …”

    • Problem there being is that Ron is a 25% share holder. He ain’t gonna sack himself. Love him or hate him, but to me Ron Dennis is Mr McLaren, if you cut his hand off his blood would form the McLaren logo on the floor. All the man is asking is that everyone else in the organization does the same. I don’t think that is an unreasonable request.

    • It’s fair to say though that McLaren are slumping to worst ‘pound-for-pound’ team on the grid, possibly followed by Ferrari. These two teams really need to turn around their performances.. only 5 years ago they had just stopped dominating..

        • True, but I would definitely call 2007/8 McLaren/Ferrari domination. BMW and Renault were lucky to win a few races in that period (or not lucky, in one particular case…)

          It could also be said that McLaren were the best challenger to RB dominance from mid-2009-2012. Now, they’re lucky to be better than 6th fastest at some events…

          • …and Ferrari were 3rd in that period… while now they are still 3rd – of 3 works teams.. Likely to be McLaren 4th next year of 4?

  7. I wonder how many of the British F1 “fans” that post here are actually going to go to any part of the British GP weekend? Fortis96? Anybody?

    • No. Too expensive to just to hear the noise and watch a meaningless procession of cars going round a circuit.

      If I had access to three screens – one with sector times, one to follow three or four drivers position on the circuit, and to meaningful sector times and one with a graphic showing real-time position of all cars on th track; and combined with James Allen’s commentary on Radio 5 Live – then I might go.

        • Yes, implement the software that a certain app & website “f1lt” used to run.
          Another excellent data source (but was only ran at test sessions) was by http://f1tests.info/2013.php which stopped updating after 02 March 2013.

          Sadly both f1lt and f1tests were served cease and desist order by FOM’s lawyers.

          • I remember using the tests site for the tests…. very good.. no wonder FOM now wants to improve after sending them a ‘cease & desist’..

    • Yes, from tommorow until Sunday, and I have the centre north access pass to see the 50th paddock display too. I’ll be their peddling my ‘Lewis fanboy’ nonsense, worshipping at the shrine of European eco politics, and waxing lyrical about my countrys excpetional ability, and amazing press outfits. Oh, there will be the Red Arrows, Spitfires, and a Beatles tribute act too, so I can just watch those if watching cars go around gets a bit boring, and bask in the former glory of empire too. Anything I missed?

      Never let it be said you are not a balanced individual Cav, you have a chip on both shoulders.

        • I’m English, and from the very north of this fair country, so read redneck English into that too. Our most enigmatic climate, and our rule over a vast empire, has taught us clear lessons: Southerners: be prepared and bring sun tan cream and an umbrella, Northerners: bring a T-shirt and pretend its fine. It rained last time I was there in 2008 too, and if its the same as that weekend, then thats fine by me.

        • Aw that sounds good DQ, but I have no idea how to sort that out? i’m going with my dad and brother and I don’t really know where we are going to be and when as I’ve only been once before, so we’ll probably be headless chickens quite a lot, (normally its too expensive, and this is costing over a months wages for all three of us all told, even with GA tickets, but my dad is treating us after my brothers illness last year). If you have any cunning plans, I’ll probably get wifi at the hotel tommorow, but otherwise if you see a grinning 35 year old, with an old fella and a lad in his twenties, thats us, I’ll be the one in the ‘Lewis, Lewis, he’s our man, if he can’t do it… Nico probably will’ T-shirt…. Damn, I wish I had actually had that printed now :p

    • I’m not going, I don’t feel it offers value for money. I’ll be carp fishing on a 63acre lake this weekend. Watching the F1 on my laptop using my phone as a WiFi tether.
      I think the only way I’d get to attend a race is if won free tickets or someone offers to take me. The TV pictures to me cover more of the action than you see in 1 spot on the track. Although I’ve never yet attended a race and I’ve been an avid F1 fanatic for 30+ years, I would someday like to experience the atmosphere with it’s own unique sounds and smells, maybe the wife can get me some ticketd for my 40th, I best mention it to her, she got some saving to do lol.

      • Ditch the idea of Silverstone and go straight to Monza (IME), that place has history, atmosphere, good food and sunshine. Cost wise its a bit more, but its also a damn sight better than an old airfield perimeter road in the middle of nowhere.

    • Your posting, I mean trolling, is becoming increasingly xenophobic, Cav. From boring to offensively boring.

    • I’ve been to a British GP (10 years ago), but right now, I’m more likely to be going to the next BRDC F4 race at Oulton Park, than the British GP at Silverstone..

  8. Interesting to see who is lining up to counter Malone. RB, Ferrari (Stroll… so his son must be the one on the Junior program), Lotus.. I would say get Mercedes, McLaren-Honda onboard, ask Williams as well… that’s the 6 strategy group teams done and dusted. The 5 big ones can ‘bear the load’, while Williams has a minority interest.. would the little teams support this?

    If the top teams ran F1, they would appoint a CEO to run it; then, distribute the funds better? Would they just scale up Bernie’s system… or keep it the same and lower prices all around? Who knows…

    • @ f1esty

      * note –

      it said ” Ferrari on board …… ”

      I think that means support – not financial involvement

      • Fair enough, but I would have thought they would want a say (probably a hefty say at that.. Vetoes anybody?), not to be held ransom by someone else owning their stake, who wants to get their son in a red car..

  9. With the announcement of the multi-million dollar sponsorship deal between Ferrari and Hass, I was wondering if anyone can tell me who McLaren’s title sponsor is this year? Do they actually have any sponsors left? Is Honda having to subsidize them to keep the team afloat? Will Ron have to drop Button and Magnussen for pay drivers?

    • @ Cav

      where does it say ” multi-million dollar sponsorship ” ?

      I can’t find any ……

      can you post links please.

      • The story will be in this weeks Sunday Post – which you can read after you’ve finished reading Oor Wullie and The Broons.

    • Not pay drivers (unless they can find some more Perez’s) necessarily (Maldonado…), but if cash strapped they’ll do a Force India, i.e. pay some talents a pittance (which is still a pittance more than anywhere else) to drive and plough the cash saved into the car.

      • And in this case, they have 2 freshly developed.. Magnussen and Vandoorne. Pay them under a mill combined per year and you have 10m+ saved from paying Button to use on the car. We already know Vandoorne will do no worse than Jenson is right now. So does Jenson as part of his management team…

  10. So based on reports that Kimi may not renew his contract at the end of the season, what’s next is in store for him? It didn’t work in WRC, could he make it in the GRC championship?

    • Both he and Hamilton are moving to the British Truck Racing Association Championship

      • What’s your unhealthy obsession with Lewis Cav? It’s like you get a stiffy whenever anyone makes a reference to him and you just have to comment.
        Please respond.

        • Probably can’t right now, his hands might be a bit occupied sorting out his stiffy.

          Pay him no attention, it’s what keeps him going.

    • FFS! Is anyone else getting a bit bored with the over-simplistic ‘A. Champion has had bad race results after driving an uncompetetive car therefore should leave F1 at the next available opportunity’ nonsense that is proffered on a daily basis? I would have thought that being a World Champion should at least command a modicum of respect, rather than acting as a starting point for a tirade of abuse should they subsequently fail to perform at anything less than the level of utter perfection. All of this mindless tit-for-tat-ing merely lowers the level of debate. Come on, people! The quality of comment and debate here is second to none during a race weekend, then slumps to almost Planet F1 (sorry for swearing) levels of sniping and bitchiness the greater the distance from the last Grand Prix. Let’s have some more intelligent debate, we may even entice some more to join in that way.

  11. I read through all the comments just now. I really needed a laugh, thanks ladies and gent.

    I love you guys. Bring on the British GP.

  12. Re: Braking debate.

    This is general. But I found in Motorsport, be it on enduro or road bikes, tin top cars, go karts, a little rallying and open wheelers (with and without d’force), that as you lose tyre grip and subsequently your tyres do not have that bite anymore, and as they begin to lock easier causing entry understeer, then the following happens: (Note I often had data acquisition in most instances.)

    1) Braking distances increase. As a result, a pilot tends to fall into the trap of throttle pick beginning earlier in corner. It’s the only way to compensate. It’s a shit feeling.
    2) Braking tends to become ‘straighter’ as opposed to managing brake/turn/apex hitting in one motion. You are trying to get all four/two wheels stable/flat and loaded equally and working.
    3) Application of the brake is more judicious. You apply it more progressively (still firmly) and then tend to exponentially feather it off and you start getting more mid corner speed as you ‘coast’ in more. Then you are managing exit understeer everywhere as you throttle earlier. It’s a downward spiral. The gap to full off brake mode and hitting apex increases. In perfect conditions, you should decelerate all the way to the apex, subtly locking and releasing or thereabout in most corners.
    4) You actually ‘use’ the brakes more. But less intently and the data rarely shows the peak pressure or heat you normally use in any phase of the braking.

    So what does this mean. It means that, in general, where a tyres grip is exponentially decreasing, brake pads actually get used more and for longer and I found actually pads wear more, but brake discs and rotors suffer far, far less heat and run far cooler and are less prone to failure and/or brake fade which is when you have fresh brakes so fucking hot they are out of their operating temp. (This happens on fresh tyres as they can take the heavy braking.)

    So it’s a complicated answer really, and in F1 I can’t assume the physics are so different. But there could be other issues at play too.

    I hope this helped and wasn’t too convoluted.

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