Daily #F1 News and Comment: Friday 13th June 2014

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1965 Clark wins Belgian Grand Prix

Bottas top of the pile

Mystery of wind tunnels

A thankless task

A lap of Le Mans

Austrain GP: The unknown factor

Formula E – onboard lap at Donnington Park

Newey’s day is done

Are F1 tickets expensive?

Williams Advance Engineering wins prestigious ‘Renewable’s award


OTD Lite: 1965 Clark wins Belgian Grand Prix

Belgian-Grand-Prix-1965-01The legendary Jim Clark won his fourth consecutive Belgian Grand Prix around the notorious Spa-Francorchamps. After having passed pole winner Graham Hill, Clark completed the 32 laps of the 8 mile circuit with only the BRM of Jackie Stewart on the lead lap.

Jim Clark detested the Belgian track and yet his artistry was perhaps never better demonstrated than around this circuit. Belgium was his second victory of the 1965 season and he would win a further four Grand Prix to secure his second title that year.

Also this day in when?

 

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Bottas top of the pile

In Formula 1, the only thing that matters is the result at the end of the race. As long as you cross the finish line first, no matter how you achieved it, that is all that will matter when it comes to deciding the winner of the championship by the end of the season.

But winning a race isn’t as simple as just driving your car very fast around the circuit for 300km until you take the chequered flag and are handed a lavish trophy. Unfortunately, other drivers tend to have a annoying habit of getting in the way and in order to win, you’ll very often be forced to ‘overtake’ them…

In many ways, overtaking is to Formula 1 what scoring a goal is to Football or a try in Rugby. They require timing and judgement to decide how best to attack as well as adequate skill to execute successfully. When it comes to racecraft, no other skill helps to win a driver fans more effectively than their ability to pull off spectacular overtaking moves.

So which of this year’s drivers has been making the most moves out on track? Well, counting all competitive passes so far this season (counting any competitive on-track move outside of the first lap of races against opponents who attempted to resist being overtaken and excluding any passes made on a driver in the pitlane or against a stricken or recovering cars), it is Valtteri Bottas who has successfully executed the most overtakes in 2014 thus far, having dispatched 21 drivers over seven races at an average of three moves per race.

Next are the two Red Bull drivers of Ricciardo (15) and Vettel (14), who have passed almost thirty rivals between them, with Jenson Button (14) and Sergio Perez (12) rounding out the top five. At the bottom end of the scale, it is perhaps a surprise to see that Lewis Hamilton has currently overtaken fewer rivals than any other driver on the grid, bar Jules Bianchi.

But how telling are these statistics, really? Well, in truth, not very. There are range of factors that influence how many overtaking opportunities a driver faces, such as whether they start a race ‘out of position’ due to a penalty or mechanical issue, while the main reason that Lewis Hamilton has overtaken so few opponents is mainly down to the fact that he has been at the very sharp end of the field all season.

That doesn’t make these figures all completely meaningless, however. When you look at the amount of times a driver has been overtaken himself this season, you start to see a better illustration of certain drivers struggling against their team mates.

For example, at Ferrari, Fernando Alonso has performed nine overtakes so far in 2014 and been overtaken just six times, whereas Kimi Raikkonen has pulled off 11 passes and been overtaken on 16 occasions – ten more than his team mate.

Whether you believe they have meaning or otherwise, here is a list of the most prolific overtakers and most overtaken drivers of the year so far. There’s still along way to go in the 2014 season and a lot of moves to be made – let’s hope we get some truly memorable ones.

Most competitive overtakes in 2014 (as of Canadian GP):

1)   Valtteri Bottas – Williams (21)
2) Daniel Ricciardo – Red Bull (15)
3) Sebastian Vettel – Red Bull (14)
= Jenson Button – McLaren (14)
5) Sergio Perez – Force India (12)
= Daniil Kvyat – Toro Rosso (12)

Least competitive overtakes in 2014:

1) Lewis Hamilton – Mercedes (1)
= Jules Bianchi – Marussia (1)
3) Marcus Ericsson – Caterham (2)
4) Max Chilton – Marussia (3)
5) Nico Rosberg – Mercedes (3)

Most overtaken drivers in 2014:

1) Kamui Kobayashi – Caterham (23)
2) Esteban Gutierrez – Sauber (19)
3) Kimi Raikkonen – Ferrari (16)
4) Marcus Ericsson – Caterham (14)
= Daniil Kvyat – Toro Rosso (14)

Least overtaken drivers in 2014:

1) Lewis Hamilton – Mercedes (2)
= Nico Rosberg – Mercedes (2)
= Daniel Ricciardo – Red Bull (2)
= Sergio Perez – Force India (2)
5) Valtteri Bottas – Williams (4)

(Author: Will, Capreissports)

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Mystery of wind tunnels

Try watching some F1 race footage with full commentary from the 1990’s and it is almost shocking the lack of information the viewer receives. The implications of the various number tyre changes and strategy is rarely discussed.

Then again, the average F1 fan I speak to today is significantly more ‘educated’ in matters F1 than at any time I can previously remember.

Even though Ecclestone believes Facebook, YouTube and Twiitter are about to die, it is precisely the advent of the internet and social media which has seen the growth in knowledge of all things F1

The teams can contribute to our education and engage us ore – as Sauber are doing here in the 8 part series they are developing on wind tunnels.

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A thankless task

“Ok, so we want you to make tyres for the faste3st racing cars in the world Mr. Hembery. However, the new engines will have 4-5 times the torque as the current engines – but we can’t give you anything to try out and see if your tyres will stand up to these new and somewhat unknown forces.

Oh and by the way, we want the tyres to be grippy, but we need them to degrade forcing the drivers to stop 2-3 times at all the different circuit configurations (and surfaces) for the 2014 F1 calendar”.

After the uproar of 2013 and the persistent complaints (particularly from Red Bull) about the fragile nature of the Pirelli tyres and the pictures beamed around the world which recorded Silverstone race leader, Lewis Hamilton’s tyre explode – this F1` season year did have the potential to be an unmitigated nightmare for Pirelli.

Yet there are not insignificant tyre issues present this year, it’s just they are eclipsed by the impact of the new engine regulations.

The tyre issues are still there for the teams in 2014, it’s just that the new engine regulations are taking all of the focus away.

The recent race weekend in Canada highlighted the problems certain teams are having. Mercedes bizarrely was often quicker on the slower harder yellow (soft) tyre and struggled to make what should have been a quicker tyre work.

Yet despite this, the race was indeed a two stop race, though bPerez worked miracles to still be in the hunt for a podium with less than one lap remaining.

On the whole, given the challenges Pirelli faced for 2014, Paul Hembery is happy with the tyre performance. “Once again, Canada delivered a thrilling grand prix: this time in hot conditions, which led to plenty of interesting tyre strategies. With such an action-packed race, we saw plenty of improvisation from several drivers as they attempted to use tyre strategy to their best advantage.
Congratulations to Daniel Ricciardo for his first win after a truly memorable race. Congratulations also to Force India, which has often taken a different approach to tyre strategy compared to their rivals in all the time we have been involved in Formula One.

In Canada this led to a good result, which could have been even better had it not been for the accident right at the end, demonstrating again how tyre strategy can be used to boost final positions.”

So we can give a Pirelli an 8 out of 10 for this year’s efforts, though with the dedicated in season tyre testing, we can expect a return of ‘the cliff’’ and more consistent operating windows from the next design of F1 tyres for 2015.

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A lap of Le Mans

F1 is remarkably quiet today, and many of the internet news sites are catching up with stories TJ13 already ran. Of course Le Mans has some bearing on this, and so for those of you who can’t get Le Mans coverage, here’s a lap in a 2014 LMP2 car.

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Austrain GP: The unknown factor

Nico Rosberg is understandably buoyed by his Canadian GP result and reveals he has some experience of driving the old A1 ring in Austria, which is next up.

“I’m looking forward to the next race in Austria and a chance to get back to our winning form once again. Although I’ve driven the circuit before, that was more than ten years ago in F3: back when it was still called the A1 Ring! Of course, it will be very different in a Turbocharged, V6 Hybrid Formula One car, so it’s basically like starting from scratch for everyone on the grid. Personally, I love that kind of challenge, so I’m excited to get back in the car and go for another top result.”

For some, the Red Bull Ring in Styria is something of a micky mouse circuit, with just 7 proper corners. However, one challenge the new F1 powertrains have not yet encountered is altitude. At its highest point the Styrian circuit is over 2,500 ft above sea level, and Paddy Lowe ponders the impact this will have on Mercedes and the rest.

“We’re excited by the prospect of a return to Spielberg after many years away and hoping for a return to form results-wise. It’s a short circuit with a lot of braking and high fuel consumption, so it will be another challenging race. The venue is also at high altitude which, owing to the low atmospheric pressure, places a different kind of duty on the Power Unit to what we’ve seen so far. It will be interesting to see how well both we and the competition respond to that.”

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Formula E – onboard lap at Donnington Park

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Newey’s day is done

There are those who believe that Adrian Newey’s decision to leave F1 is a petulant reaction to the direction in which the sport’s regulations are heading. Of course a diminished emphasis on aerodynamics which is Newey’s speciality does indeed reduce the impact Adrian can have on producing a winning car design.

However, the tiode3 has turned. Following a disappointing 2011 season, a typically arrogant Luca de Montezemolo had this to say.

“Formula One is still our life, but without Ferrari there is no Formula One, just as without Formula One Ferrari would be different. We can be very patient but there are precise conditions for us to continue with our work. We race not just for the publicity it brings us but above all to carry out advanced research aimed at all aspects of our road cars: engine, chassis, mechanical components, electronics, materials and aerodynamics, to such an extent that the technology transfer from track to road has grown exponentially over the past twenty years.

What is not so good is that 90% of performance is now based exclusively on aerodynamics.

Well here we are in 2014 and Il Padrino is seeing some of his wishes come to pass.

Yet the new engine formula was intended to attract more manufacturers to F1 after the mass walkout in 2009. So far that hasn’t really happened. Yes, Honda will join the fray as an engine only supplier in 2015, but in a way this only replaces the loss of Cosworth.

In another racing dimension, there is a different story being told. Sports car racing had been in decline for a number of years until three years ago when the FIA and the Automobile Club de l‘ouest who run Le Mans agreed to co-promote a global championship sports car series we now know as the World Endurance Series.

2015 will be the fourth season for the WEC and there will be four manufacturers with entries in the top flight LMP1 category, with Nissan declaring they will join Audi, Toyota and Porsche.

Nissan’s global head of marketing Darren Cox explained why the company was enterting the WEC and not F1. “What the ACO and the FIA have done in developing the new regulations for LMP1 is to create something that is both technologically innovative and provides a key platform for manufacturers like Nissan to talk about subjects like fuel efficiency in an exciting way.”

When Porsche announced they would be entering thre WEC, their head of R&D Wolfgang Hatz explained why they had decided on that particular series.

‘We are a sportscar company. Porsche has always lived for the transfer of racing to production cars. ‘For that reason it was clear two or three years ago we had to be back in high-level motorsport, and it was a choice between top-flight sportscars or Formula One.

The final decision was the only logical one. F1 was an alternative, but the road relevance is not there.

Also, there is a lot of publicity around politics and tyres, but not so much about the engines and chassis.

The aero, too, is incredible, but so extreme that it cannot result in any development in our road car understanding.’

The politics to which Hatz refers has been the seemingly never ending drama over the “Ecclestone corruption” allegations. Fans of F1 don’t care much about what Bernie gets up to and even those in the paddock roll their eyes and treat Ecclestone as a loveable rogue. But global corporations don’t react this way and neither do their shareholders.

Clearly, budget is also a consideration. A manufacturer’s LMP1 entry is likely to cost around $100m a year, whereas Mercedes spend on their own car’s engines and chassis development in excess of $300m a year.

Formula 1 needs to decide what it wants to become. The manufacturers have said they don’t want cars whose performance focus is 90% aerodynamics, but the synergy in road car technology development is never likely to be as relevant as it is in the WEC.

Maybe F1 should kick out the car manufacturer’s and stipulate entrants must be private companies building single seater prototype racing cars, designed to be the fastest in the world.

Yeah right. So that’s not going to happen.

F1’s refusal to distribute the spoils of commercialism amongst the teams in a fairer manner together with the larger teams refusing to limit their spending in effect means there is no solution which makes F1’s future look rosy – other suggest it is in fact apocalyptic..

It may be that by 2020 we have just Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes and Williams racing in the premier series with new incarnations of the rest competing in some kind of second division.

One solution to break the deadlock could be to allow greater freedom within the design regulations to teams signing up to spend less than $100m. Should the freedoms be sufficient for them to challenge the big boys – they just then might think blowing over a quarter of a billion a year is not such a great idea after all.

So whatever the future will be, it is not one where Adrian Newey and his aerodynamicists rule the roost. Those days are over.

For now it is about the raw power of the Mercedes which is beating a shambolic Ferrari outfit who in turn have been overtaken by Renault whose engine didn’t last 250k in February.

Maybe it is time for Ferrari to say good bye to F1 too.

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Are F1 tickets expensive?

“One of the gripes that one always hears from F1 fans is that the tickets are too expensive and that the prices should be reduced. The argument is based on the idea that 200,000 people paying half the price of a crowd of 100,000 equals the same result. This is not strictly true as there are many additional costs created by having larger crowds.

However, the key point in such discussions is whether or not there is a limit to the number of tickets on offer. Most races sell all their race day tickets and thus the price is set by supply and demand. More people want to go to Monaco than want to watch races in Bahrain. The aim of every promoter is to make as much money as possible and so it is important to find the right price point at which the stands are filled with people who were willing to pay what was requested. The fact that ticket prices are high shows that the sport is popular.

When you take a look at what it costs to go to other world class events one has to say that F1′s prices often seem quite reasonable. The reason I mention this is that this evening I am off to the Stade de France in Paris to watch the Rolling Stones in concert. There were 75,000 tickets available for this event and they were all sold within 51 minutes of going on sale. That is impressive marketing power, particularly when you are doing 30 gigs a year. The face value of the tickets we have is about the same kind of cost that one might expect to pay for general access at a Grand Prix and we could have spent a great deal more if we had wanted to be closer to the stage. Unfortunately we were not among the lucky folk to get tickets in those 51 minutes and so we have had to pay the market price. It took a deep breath but it is one of those things that one HAS to do. Bernie Ecclestone always used to say that Formula 1 was like the Bolshoi Ballet and that you have to pay to see quality and he has a point (although tickets to the Bolshoi are not THAT expensive because the number of ballet lovers does not seem to match the number of F1 fans).

Curious about ticket prices, I went on the Web to look at ticket prices for the Men’s Final at Wimbledon, on the same day as the British GP, and found that I could secure one for $8,200. I also looked at the World Cup Final in Brazil and was curious to see that I could get a ticket for between $5,500 and $13,500, not including transportation costs and hotels and so on. The price varies according to the number of seats available for a big event so, for example, a Super Bowl ticket for around $800 is to be expected if one buys directly from the NFL, but the secondary market will bump the price up considerably.

And it is not just sports. If you want to go to the New Year’s Day concert in the Musikverein in Vienna, you have to put your name down for a lottery each year (a year ahead of the next concert) and you must be prepared to pay $1,275 if you want a decent seat. If your number does not come up then the only option is to buy the tickets on the secondary market and the prices multiply accordingly.

So, in the overall scheme of things, F1 tickets are not that expensive. People with normal real world salaries need to save up to be able to afford them but they are not numbers from outer space as is seen in some other events”.

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Williams Advance Engineering wins prestigious ‘Renewable’s award

Renewable energy has been gradually increasing in the uk and latest government figures show that renewable electricity grew by 3/5% last year. Renewables account for 15% of the Uk’s needs currently and is a growing sector.

This year celebrated the ninth Renewable Energy Awards which honour those that have developed, innovated and invested in this growing sector. With 11 award categories – which include community, company, finance and installer amongst the groups – one particular award ‘Pioneer’ is for an organisation in a sector that has not previously been associated with renewables and has since created a pathway that others can follow.

The 2014 prize winner is the Williams Advance Engineering division who won the award for its work in taking flywheel energy storage technology which had been developed in its 2009 Formula One car and bringing it to a market in the renewables and transport sectors.

The judging panel awarded the prize based on seeing this flywheel technology installed on two micrograms in the Scottish highlands to help stabilise their power grid, improve energy efficiency and reduce emissions.

Craig Wilson, Managing Director of Williams Advanced Engineering, said; “Flywheel energy storage technology really kick started Williams’ diversification programme beyond motor racing and has set the scene for Williams Advanced Engineering’s subsequent expansion into other forms of energy efficient technology. The fact that in less than five years a technology first developed for a racing car is now being installed on a renewable microgrid is testament to the ability we have to accelerate technical innovations that help address important issues such as global warming. It’s is a real honour to be acknowledged for our R&D work in energy efficiency at such a prestigious awards ceremony.”

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81 responses to “Daily #F1 News and Comment: Friday 13th June 2014

  1. We’ve said it before, Bottas is a very talented driver.

    Bottas, Bianchi, Ricciardo, Magnussen, Grosjean, are all future stars. Once Alonso, Lewis and Vettel retire, they’ll carry the flame.

    • I agree, but also find it interesting how 1 year ago, Bottas and Vergne starred at the 2013 Canadian GP in wet conditions. Ricciardo ended up lapped, while JEV finished 6th and Bottas Q’d 3rd. Yet just one year later it’s Ricciardo winning the GP!

      • I suspect this is why Vergne is still at TR – he probably only just out to Danny in the choice of who to promote so they are keeping him handy in case they need him.

        That said, it always seemed as if he was only good in certain conditions and Danny did better overall.

        • Agreed – and RB rely on Q pace to get ahead of others and run with more downforce. That said, DR also looks very handy at overtaking, if not starts. But that overtaking skill has been vital, especially for his first win.

  2. A big part of the track that clark used as the belgian grand prix is part of the landscape now. So the roads are open for normal traffic. Pretty amazing feeling to drive there. So much history. And a long time ago, when the bus stop still was the bus stop not that new chicane, part of the track was “closed” with obstacles. And part of the track was public road, like eau rouge and the raidillon, 😆 but if you came with a motorcycle you could easily avoid the obstacles so you could drive the whole circuit. As a matter in fact eau rouge was a one direction road. You could only drive up. If you came out of the opposite direction you toke the really old part of the francorchamps track.

    • Spa 1967 is about to come out for GPL.. this will match up perfectly with the old track, whereas all sim versions so far have just copied the Papyrus Spa for GPL from 1998, which has some modern features in it (Eau Rouge and straight to Les Combes, wider surface). On papy Spa, avg. speed is even higher – 160 mph+! Laptimes are as fast as 3:11… real life had Clark at 3:28 and about 145 mph average.

      Some magical tracks for GPL.. there is even Targa Florio. Full length Isle of Man TT is the next big one to come out after this.. Can Am 66 is the next mod, and after that 1955 F1.

  3. Couple of interesting news on Hamilton today.

    Wolff described him as a ‘driving genius’. Highly surprising coming from him I have to admit.

    And Herr Marko said that they considered signing him in 2003.

        • What Marko actually said was “We were considering it, but we thought it wouldn’t work,”

          So in reality Red Bull probably “considered” every current F1 driver to replace Webber. Also, what’s the point of Marko’s Red Bull driver development program, and the millions spent on it, if the drivers in it aren’t actually any good to drive for Red Bull.

          • I think they all could and would do well… it’s just about being in the right place at the right time. I’m sure Webber wanted to hand off to a fellow Aussie as well, to establish him in F1 for the long term. Vergne is likely to be forgotten after this year, but in the last 2 Canadian GPs he’s been arguably the best driver there.

  4. “…prices should be reduced. The argument is based on the idea that 200,000 people paying half the price of a crowd of 100,000 equals the same result. This is not strictly true as there are many additional costs created by having larger crowds.”

    Maybe there is a tiny kernel of truth there…….. but one’s fixed costs will NOT increase as more fans show up and with twice as many people you’ve sold twice as many hotel rooms, public transit rides, parking spots, foodstuffs, merchandise, etc. etc. etc. so I’m going to say that JS’s thesis statement is a bunch of crap here.

    • The problem is, Bernie’s ruthless push has shown exactly how much people will pay to attend. The prices at even more exclusive things show that there will always be rich people to buy the tickets, no matter how expensive they get.

      For F1, most fans are older and have been working a long time = can save up and pay big prices. Hence a lack of interest amongst younger fans who can’t afford to go, unless taken along by a parent. All the poorer folk have to content themselves with TV.

    • “you’ve sold twice as many hotel rooms, public transit rides…………”

      None of which benefit the promoter, though it may increase revenue for the city or the region the race is in.

      • You’re correct, I lumped region benefits and circuit benefits into 1 list. It’s basically moot, though, if a local/regional government helps the circuit pay for race fees (it’s not this way at every single circuit on the F1 calender, I know, but my point remains.)

    • Having a larger crowd and lower prices would be helpfull to gain more fans. It might not help the promoter directly, but would be helpfull for the sport as total.
      But in F1 its everyone for himself.

  5. I read recently that they’ve banned open cockpits in LMP1 at Le Mans this year (but it’s OK in LMP2 – wtf?). Seeing the aftermath of the big there yesterday have me pause to ponder the idea wrt F1.
    I’m a big fan of open cockpits – they just seem ‘right’ to me – but the risks for the driver are pretty clear. Are those risks acceptable in this day and age? It’s very easy to strike a macho pose, repeat the glib assertion that “motorsport is dangerous” and consider the argument closed.
    I saw some FIA videos on GooTube a few years ago that showed them firing wheels at an F16 canopy as some kind of proof of concept. The Massa incident springs to mind as the prompt for the exercise.
    What I remember most about the tests was the reaction of the F1’s elders, including Ross Brawn. I’d like to think there was depth to their response than was reported, but the best comment they could apparently come up with was that debris might bounce off the canopy into the crowd and that the canopy may trap a driver in the event of a rollover / fire. Both certainly plausible issues, but I rate them with the idea that by not wearing a seatbelt in a road car you might be thrown clear and survive in the event of a crash. Or hay a seatbelt might jam in a crashing prevent a timely escape. Yeah, but nah.
    I dunno. My own automotive indulgence is a Lotus 7 knockoff that – true to its 1950’s inspiration – lacks every one of the active and passive safety features and driver aids that we all demand when we buy a family car. It’s also a true open-cockpit too, with just an aeroscreen to flick the bull of the airflow over my head. The risks are real. Head says it’s crazy. Heart says it’s fantastic.

  6. 30 years ago you had to see the Stones. Now it’s just kinda sad. Though, TBH I always preferred the Kinks. Flame away.

    • @ Matt

      30 years ago – the Stones were still shit ……

      they passed their sell by date circa 1969

  7. Saward’s thesis is weak point upon weak point. The weakest of them all being that he compares one F1 race, that is one of 19, with the single Wimbledon final that occurs every year, the single Super Bowl that occurs every year and the single World Cup Final that occurs every 4 years! It really puzzles me how some people are journalists with blogs that many many people read. Oh well…

    • Though for most people that attend an F1 race it is a one-off event.

      • Very true, but we’re talking about the comparison in price irrespective of how many events you attend. Equally, attending a tennis final or World Cup Final for the matter, is probably a once in a lifetime event for most ordinary people, not annual!

    • Not sure I agree with your argument. There are more Tennis finals than just Wimbledon – US Open, French Open, Australian Open and numerous other tour championships.

      There aren’t AS MANY top-level/grand slam tennis finals as there are GP’s, but there are many opportunities to see the best players in the world compete against each other.

      I actually think that the best evidence of tickets being overpriced is that almost NONE of the races sell-out. Either F1 isn’t anywhere near as popular as everyone tries to say it is, or tickets to the live event are (far) too expensive for those who could attend. It can’t be fantastically popular and well/fairly-priced if so many venues are (at best) half full.

      In my opinion, to say otherwise defies logic.

  8. Hamilton with only 1 competitive pass this year? Who’s the author of that again? Just going off the top of my head I can think of four:

    – passing Hulkenberg in Malaysia, on his out-lap after his first stop
    – passing Rosberg twice in Bahrain on switchbacks, once after T1 into T2, then later after T4 into T5/6.
    – passing Vettel in Canada

    As always in F1, it seems, putting some stats thru a subjective ringer usually backfires on the author.

  9. It would be interesting to know how many of those overtakes on Kimi, where done at the start of the race

    • @ Fortis

      RTFI

      ” …. counting any competitive on-track move outside of the first lap of races ….. “

          • What’s with the acronyms today? Yesterday you were buddies because of Philip Island (think it was) and today your at it again 😉 Makes for entertaining reading though just try and keep it clean pls gents 🙂

          • Maybe you should ask him, because he’s the one who decided, like always, that he has to resort to using profanity towards me. I just made a statement, he didn’t have to answer it, no one else did. But I guess if swearing at me or trying to belittle me, makes him feel better within himself, then all the best to him.

          • I don’t think I commented on any of his post yesterday.

            Still I surprise gave a list of his ideal F1 calender and I mentioned Mount Panorama to him and that was about it.

          • I don’t know if the judge covered this on Monday. It’s to do with the Perez / Massa crash.

            Apparently, the stewards didn’t speak to Perez at all before handing down his grid penalty.

            What’s your take on that? I find it strange that they’d give a penalty like that and not interview both drivers first.

          • Hmmm… I like Massa 🙂 It’s difficult today, looking at the incident it looked like Massa turned into Perez.

            Having said that, you’d hope the stewards looked at telemetry before handing down any penalties. Problem is, it’s not very transparent and it seems everyone has an axe to grind with someone.

            Personally I think there should be less penalties. I can’t think that either Perez or Massa crashes deliberately. It’s racing, accidents will happen. If the guys keep on being penalised what will happen to guys like Perez who put their elbows out every so often? You want drivers to take a chance don’t you, or at least try to overtake.

          • @ Cunto96

            aren’t we a prickly pear ?

            aha ha ha ha ha ha

            😉

  10. Re: Joe Saward article.

    Well I posted on there, but I think it was probably too sensible. The answer to F1 and its promotion problems is not going to come from the paddock or FOM. They need an outside company with expertise in sports promotion. The obvious candidate is IMG http://img.com/home.aspx Yes they promote Motor sports. They seem to have created a wide recognition for Rallycross, and manufacturers are showing a lot of interest, because it is TV and fan friendly. None of the PR and secrecy obsession of F1. Of course IMG and the organisers of NHRA drag racing, and NASCAR realised a long time ago that fan engagement means more fans, more TV, more teams, and more sponsors, a virtuous circle. It’s a shame that Bernie and FOM have not recognised this obvious concept. The Rallycross web site is an example of the sort of thing that F1 should be doing. http://www.rallycrossrx.com. In America Red Bull are sponsoring the GRC events. http://www.redbullglobalrallycross.com

    I really like the quote about the GRC fan experience in ‘About’ section:

    “One of the core principles of GRC is the ability for fans to rub elbows with some of the biggest names in the sport. With a completely open paddock, fans are free to walk through, interacting with drivers and watching mechanics at work.”

    GRC and World/European rallycross will have the same rules package in 2015. The FIA and teams/organisers are determined to keep costs down, and provide access via all media.

    Does the above seem like the almost complete opposite to F1 thinking?

    • I read Joe’s article and just shook my head in disbelief. Here is one of F1’s stalwarts, supposed to be a business analyst by trade but missing the point completely.

      You are right, it is about promotion. Anyone can pick up a basketball, tennis racket etc. Racing cars is not the same and unless you get introduced to it how will you get close to the sport?

      Question though, is computer games not taking people away from Motorsport? Kids want to take part in sports. Can’t afford a car so race on a console or computer. For is who grew up with motorsport there is no comparison but what do the kids of today have? £50 for a game they can play with their friends (all over the world) orb£150-500 for a ticket to F1…each plus expensive (rubbish) food.

      Out if interest, how much is an Indycar or NASCAR ticket for an event?

      • For the Toronto Indy race in July where there is actually a race on Saturday and another on Sunday – general admittance for practice on Friday is free – $35 CDN general admittance Saturday or Sunday. Most expensive seats are two-day in the pit grandstand – $185 CDN

        • Thanks Cav. And that’s it then, disposable income, if not think twice spending $35 for a GA, even $185 for a pit grandstand is reasonable..

  11. repost I think wordpress ate the original.

    Re:Joe Saward article.

    I posted there but it was probably too sensible. F1 needs promotion, but it will not find the answer in the paddock or with FOM. It needs a specialist sports promotion company. I would suggest IMG http://img.com and yes they are involved in motor sport. They are currently promoting the new World Rallycross champioship. http://www.rallycrossrx.com/ Isn’t that the sort of site that F1 needs? Video!!! Red Bull are promoting the American version GRC. http://www.redbullglobalrallycross.com/ Experience with NHRA drag racing and NASCAR has taught them a few lessons. More fans, more TV, more sponsors, more teams, a virtuous circle.

    I like the quote about the fan experience, in their ‘About’ link: “One of the core principles of GRC is the ability for fans to rub elbows with some of the biggest names in the sport. With a completely open paddock, fans are free to walk through, interacting with drivers and watching mechanics at work.”

    Sounds like the complete opposite to F1. Next year GRC and World RX will have the same rules. The FIA, the teams and the promoters are determined to keep costs down.

      • I dunno about Dorna. My understanding, via the f1 broadcasting blog, is that they are the company that took MotoGP to BT Sport, with highlights on ITV4.

        Now I am not a viewer of MotoGP personally, but if they were to do this for f1 tracks, I dunno how successful it would be.

        • @ davidD

          not true about BT

          as usual BBC have given up on another sport that people want to watch – but they ( BBC ) weren’t interested in broadcasting.

          Their contract was up – as it was with Eurosport too – and BT simply outbid both of them.

          ITV4 are taking highlights from BT – but they’ve done that for years from Eurosport and others – so you can rule them out of the equation.

          As I understood it – DORNA wanted BBC to continue coverage – but BBC preferred cheaper options like sewing or knitting …..

          If you’re a UK licence payer – you know where BBC’s priorities lie – not in motorsport !

          When their F1 deal is up – go suck Murdoch’s cock 😉

          • As I said, this is how I understand it, I’ve never actually watched MotoGP, so I’m prepared to agree with you on that one, and that I was wrong

  12. It really annoys me when people, mostly Montezemolo, claim there would be no F1 without Ferrari. I understand that they have more heritage since they have been there since the start, but at the end of the day, no team is bigger than the sport. I’m not saying it wouldn’t be and feel different, but the sport would not suddenly disappear. Plus, the extra payment for “Ferrari being Ferrari” is a ridiculous reason!

    Most people don’t care which teams are there as long as the racing is good. I would certainly not stop watching should Ferrari, or any other team for that matter, leave the sport.

    • Luca is full of it….

      The money made from F1 boosts his companies profits, and is the main reason people buy overpriced tat.

      If he tried to take Ferrari out of F1 he’d be fired.

      The man would give an aspirin a headache with his hysterical catastrophising bullshite.

      Bernard should call his bluff, just for a bit of fun.

      Gobsheen!

      • “Bernard should call his bluff, just for a bit of fun”

        Montezemolo holds all the cards and both he and Ecclestone know it, which is why he gave them 2.5% of FOM’s prize money, with that amount allegedly going up to 4%. Even Mosley was scared that Ferrari might leave F1 when he gave them veto over the regulations in 2005.

        • that’s coz Bernie & Max for all their bluster – don’t have any cojones !

        • Luca doesn’t hold the cards cav.

          The reason that Bernie deals with them the way he does it that they always, always, fold like a cheap suit when a wodge of filthy lucra is waved in front of their nose.

          And where they go, the other lemmings usually follow.

          Be under no illusion, Ferrari held all the cards in Enzos time, but not now. Bernard just likes to let them think they do.

          I can guarante you the next move in the chess board would be Bernie arranging a bigger slice of the pie to the FIA, in the event Ferrari decided they have wanted to arrange a breakaway from Bernard and the cash vampires.

          Its an obvious strategy. The FIA get their mits on more wedge, Bernard keeps them happy and the FIA say they won’t sanction the Ferrari lead breakaway (F1 value would be decimated with Ferrari pulling out).

          Ferrari wouldn’t be able to just do sportcars, its not the pinnicle. With Ron hoofing out new carbon wonders for the road they would fall behind them in the prestige stakes.

          If Bernard wants the next move to be so, it will be check mate for Luca.

          He’s just too stupid to see it.

  13. “Most people don’t care which teams are there as long as the racing is good.”

    I disagree almost completely with that. Surveys have indicated that 30% – 50% of fans that go to F1 races – go to see Ferrari, and in the new races in Asia that number goes up in some places to 75%. Even at the British GP most fans are going to see a driver. How man people will be wearing McLaren shirts this year compared to two years ago?

    • Surveys are just that – surveys ….

      Get rid of Ferrari – and lets see how people vote with their feet / wallet ?

      I’m with Colin & davidD –

      Ferrari need F1 – their balance sheet shows it – F1 doesn’t need a dead horse !

      • “Get rid of Ferrari –and lets see how people vote with their feet / wallet ?”

        Spoken like someone with zero financial interest in F1. Those who actually do have an interest, CVC and Ecclestone, aren’t ever going to let that happen.

        • No Cav – I have no ” financial interest ” in F1

          only a sporting interest in F1

          I’m not interested in lining Bernie / CVC / Ferrari’s pockets – fuck them all – they’re all cunts !

          I want to see good motor racing

          And F1 would be better without ALL of them

          • Recommending your own posts – bwhahahahahahahaha You should lay off the Irn Bru for a bit.

    • Well Ferrari is all but absent this year anyway, and F1 doesn’t seem to do all so badly, even with the suffocating Merc dominance. F1 is just fine without Ferrari.

      • Exactly. Would be nice for Fernando to win another championship though, it’s only since he joined Ferrari have I realised how damn good he is, and was so – disheartened lets say- to see him lose that championship in’12 by so few points. (No, it’s not a go at Vettel FH 🙂 )

      • Agree Danilo.

        I’d like them still involved, just Luca out on his arse. He’s holding them back with his rediculous strategic decisions, knee jerk reactions and general (in the immortal words of Arnie) girlyboy whining about this that and the other.

        He’s an (F1) success handbrake….

        I need to write an article on this, the truth needs out.

  14. If anyone is hard up for some Grand Prix racing, the biker boys are going to be ripping up Catalunya this weekend. Always a nice race.

    Oh and the two quickest guys on the quickest machines are spaniards looking to impress at home. #fireworks

    Oh and…
    @Fortis. -Rise just shakes head-

    Your anger man, it spikes way too quick and way too high. You could have just said, “yeah Manky, lol, but why should I bother reading it when I can ask and dumb shits like you will just tell me -winky face-“.

    Or, “Cheers @Manky, just moved to quick through this to get to the meat.”

    Or, “Lol, oh right! How’d I miss that.”

    All would be endearing and appropriate for the ever so sml dig Manky gave you.

    Anyway, Catalunya MotoGP gents. It’s there to be watched.

    • Thanks for the suggestion, I might use that next time.

      But you know if he goes off on me again, it’s gonna be your fault right? 😉😉

      Catalunya it’s for sure, the moto3 race is the pick of the bunch for me. Should be interesting to see how Jack Miller responds after his crash at Mugello and seeing Fenati eating into his championship lead. We already know young MM93 is going to make it 7 in a row.

  15. Re: Social media and the internet –

    I watched the entire 2010 football world cup at work through ESPN’s web telecast. It was excellent, in HD and just all round awesome. You can view the world cup online this year too on a number of websites legally, in HD including ESPN again. Some tennis grand slams are streamed live on their own websites for free while others can be viewed on ESPN and other sites in HD. This is the state of current TV broadcast/streaming when it comes to other major sports which have a greater fan base than F1 arguably. And they’ve gleefully jumped into the whole internet thing and embraced it willfully. Every grandslam has a twitter account. Does F1, to reach out to fans? Their facebook page is pitiful in comparison to other sports. F1 is just way behind when it comes to tech other than on their cars and even there WEC is almost right beside it in the last few years.

    • Oh yeah??!! Well Cav, what about the cricket? Oh wait, the Australians…

      Wait! What about Rugby League? Oh wait, the Australians…

      Wait! What about Rugby Union? Oh wait, the All Blacks…

      Um what about Basketball?!! Oh wait, the Americans.

      Damn the colonies!!!

      Yeah, stick to lawn bowling I guess.

  16. I just don’t know. I’ve been following TheJudge for quite a while and have enormously enjoyed posts like BlackJack’s teams that didn’t and many more, but something has changed here in the last couple of months. The comments are limited to just a few posters who might as well be instant messaging each other. I read F1fanatic, Saward, James Allen, and Thejudge every day, but I’ve been realizing is that comments on Saward, for example, are (and I struggle to make my point clearly here) more intellectual and thought out and less fanboyish. The Judge has done a fantastic job to get where he is, but something’s not right. I don’t know how many followers the Judge has, but the comments are limited to like 5 people and they are just a rehashing of the same old stuff. I’m just saying, Judge, that I have and do wish you well, but things need to change to keep people like me coming here. This is my penultimate post.

    • I have to agree that the comments sometimes read like in-jokes – so skip them. This site though is the best for historical and in-depth technical articles.

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