#F1 Daily News and Comment: Sunday 15th February 2015

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#TJ13 #F1 Courtroom Podcast: “A sad and pathetic attempt to impose order”

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Please use the comments section to ask an opening question for our podcast regulars to answer. Remember, the best answers are often given if the opening question is not F1 related. (Ed’s Note: What have we started!)

Manor Racing opportunity still open

Improving Formula One

Verstappen the real deal


Manor Racing opportunity still open

Despite being shafted by Force India at the previous strategy group meeting, the phoenix from the ashes of Marussia – Manor Racing – is still pursuing a place on the Formula One grid this year.

The team had gained agreement from the strategy group in December to run a modified 2014 car in 2015, until their new car was ready. Manor Racing has fulfilled the requirements set out in a letter to them from the strategy group dated 5th January.

However, for some inexplicable reason, a vote was forced at the strategy group which in effect overturned its previous ruling and the conditions set for Manor racing to be compliant. Force India were clearly not happy that a team was being allowed to run a 2014 given the expense they had incurred developing their VJM08.

The FIA have indicated yesterday they will keep the Manor Racing team’s application as part of the 2015 proposed entrants list as long as possible, until they publish the final list of participants before the Australian GP.

The team has paid its entrance fee, though if they are forced to produced a compliant 2015 car and forbidden to race with the 2014 car – they have until Bahrain to do so.

Should the Manor Racing team make the fourth race of the campaign then Force India and the other teams will not receive their £45m prize money from 2014.

se means Manor Racing will then be eligible for

This would of course see Force India and the other teams

Manor’s hopes of making it onto the 2015 Formula 1 grid have been boosted by the FIA making clear it will keep the entry list open as long as possible. The FIA have been given details for the teams new backers who have allegedly demonstrated they are capable of funding an entire F1 campaign for this season.

Marussia will come out of administration on February 19th and then be renamed Manor Racing.

There are potential legal pitfalls ahead for the FIA and Manor Racing due to the fact that the team will be changing its name, and Force India and others could challenge this with a view to preventing Manor from in effect taking Marussia’s place.

However, given the backlash from fans since Force India vetoed Manor Racing running a 2014 car this year at the last meeting of the strategy group – despite this being agreed by the group’s constituent members prior to Force India joining on January 1st – it may be that legal wrangling can be avoided for the greater good of the sport.

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Improving Formula One

Formula One engineers will always exploit the areas of greatest freedom in the regulations to gain the biggest advantage they can find. Aerodynamics has been the area in modern history where the focus and much of the spend has gone.

Despite the new FIA regulations aimed at reducing the impact of aerodynamics, TJ13 learned from a Mercedes senior official, that aerodynamics is still the biggest area for potential gain and cost.

This is why we have DRS systems, to compensate quicker cars with the huge disadvantage they face when catching a much slower car but whose rear aerodynamics create such a dirty wash of air flow, that the quicker car cannot pass them.

Formula One fans debate continuously how the sport could be better served with different regulations and Gary Anderson writing for Autosport reveals how he would do things differently.

“As far as the cars are concerned, I would reduce the aerodynamics by at least 50 per cent, increase the tyre size (especially the rears) and increase the potential power output by removing the fuel flow valve.

Anderson suggests running more than one race each weekend. Following the qualifying session on Saturday he believes there should be a shorter sprint race, with reduced points awarded, with the grid set from from the qualifying session. During this race Gary suggests allowing just 6 people to service the car in the pitlane, to increase the possibilities of upsetting the applecart.

On Sunday I would have a 250-kilometre race,” says Anderson, “but with the grid set by the drivers’ championship in reverse order. Same points as currently distributed (25 for a win etc).

The technical regulation changes would ensure the cars are harder to drive and that at a race like Monaco, following qualifying, the weekend is not a foregone conclusion.

“Add it all together and I am positive that with a bit of sorting it would be much more exciting and give spectators two days of real action,” Anderson concludes.

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Verstappen the real deal

The hype surrounding Formula One’s newest and youngest driver continues. At just 17 and with a mere 12 months of single seater racing, Max Verstappen is the talk of the F1 world.

Both Red Bull and Mercedes attention was pricked when around the middle of the European F1 season, young Max had one six races in a row. Though Mercedes may have believed there was more time in hand to sign up the young Dutchman as Verstappen reveals.

“Of course, when I was driving in F3 there was Mercedes. I was driving Volkswagen engines and we were competing against the Mercedes engines, so we got a bit in contact. We had good conversations with Toto [Wolff] and Niki [Lauda] and they were very open and honest, so we just had some conversations but no more than that.”

However, Red Bull pounced and signed the driver for their Toro Rosso F1 team for 2015. It was this which convinced Verstappen that the mighty bulls were the immediate future for him.

“Of course an F1 contract helps, but also the feeling with Red Bull was very positive. In the end that made my decision.”

TJ13 sources reveal that Max Verstappen is outstripping all expectations in the pre-season simulation tests. He is apparently ‘wiping the floor’ with Daniel Kvyat and the Russian’s future in the big bull brother car is already looking shaky.

With Red Bull having stronger challengers in 2015 and probably facing a 3 way fight for second in the WCC, a string of 7,8,9 qualifying results – followed by just 1,2 or 4 points in the race, could see Kvyat under pressure before the year is out – should Verstappen meet current expectations.

If Red Bull Racing find themselves under pressure following the summer break in the constructors’ championship, the word is Kvyat could lose his seat and be replaced by the Dutch ‘wunderkind’ before the year is out. The concern is that the ‘Russian Rocket’ may have something of a ‘Kimi streak’ away from the circuit.

37 responses to “#F1 Daily News and Comment: Sunday 15th February 2015

  1. Apart from increasing tyre sizes and removing the fuel flow rate, isn’t Gary Anderson basically saying that F1 should be like GP2?

    Re: Verstappen…..

    Why do I get the feeling that young Sainz Jr. will spank him this season?

    • Fortis, Re: Anderson, I prefer Mark Hughes for technical reading on F1. He lost me above with the reverse grid nonsense. Circuits are suffering, so punish them further with no Saturday show?

      Re: Sainz, Jr., that feeling is probably well reasoned. Sainz has more experience, actually won a car championship, he is older, etc. Verstappen, IMO, would have likely better served with another year in a junior formula. His family obviously thought otherwise. It will be interesting to watch.

    • Lol, Sainz might be a little better at the start of the season but MV will have the upperhand by the end of the year.

      And F1 should start their push for more viewers by scratching the whole pay-per-view tv model or whatever you call it. Followed by opening up the fuel flow and doing something about all those freaking run-off area’s. GP2 antics like a reversed grid are stupid, unfair and complicating F1 even more.

      • Personally I don’t have a problem with pay-per view tv, because I remember when itv use to broadcast the race and right in the middle of the race, what happens; an ad break! Like really?

        The BBC broadcast wasn’t bad, but I kinda grew tired of DC and his pants that looked like they were painted on him. And if you didn’t have freeview tv to watch the after race forum, then you’re missing out. For me Sky offers a lot more for the money, midweek report, the F1 show (which I was lucky to attend the season ending review broadcast) and the ability to watch the whole race weekend all over, from free practice to the race itself.

        However it could be a little cheaper.

      • Alex, the financial dysfunction of F1 has been discussed at length here. I would only like to say that if worldwide I can get the US sports of MLB, NFL, & NBA for around $200-250 per year each via my computer, why can’t F1 do it? Gravel in the run off areas would improve the sport and hopefully the fetish of broadcasters for exclaiming ‘he is outside the white line’ could go away.

        • Having something ridiculously abrasive on the run-off to wear down a bit of rubber from the tyres as punishment sounds alright.

          Especially means pushing it repeatedly on one corner would seriously mess up the tyre use balance of the car through a stint.

    • Re Anderson: if he had actually spend any time on the online F1 communities and look at what people are saying about artificial manipulations of the grid order he should have realized that it is hated by the fans of practically every form of motorsport that uses it. I like his ideas about the technical adaptations but his revisions to the race weekend need some more research on what fans actually want from the sport.

      Re Verstappen: Even though I was hugely impressed by his first F3 season I share some of the concerns of many other fans. I don’t think he will have any problems in qualifying and it should be an interesting battle to see him and Sainz battle it out. But I do think he has more problems during the races. He might need an accident or two before settling in during the races. And once he has I hope he will be able to show some of the overtaking ability he has shown in F3, it will gain him a lot of fans if he actually manages to do that because there were a couple of stunners in his F3 season. Then again if he has major problems settling in than it might be him who’s out before the end of the season since he doesn’t have a major oil company behind him who can make sure it doesn’t hurt a team too much financially if their driver destroys a chassis or two during the season ;-P

      • Actually, I quite like the idea of a reversed grid order race.

        However, it would be far more sensible to have this as the (much) reduced points Saturday scrap he suggests.
        That would maintain the incentive for qualifying first, but add in a spicy element of shaking things up – and increase the attractiveness of attending the Saturday sessions.

        Would also give something of a premium to the ability of racing through the pack, as far as the championship is concerned.

        The only downside I can see is increased engine wear (the increase costs could be offset by increased revenues from the Saturdy race).

        • I agree, from a show POV it could be a boost. Maybe if the Sunday race was cut to 250km, then a sprint could be the lost 50?

          If cars can actually overtake and it was at qually speed it could be a good addition, but won’t happen as the weekend is always full of junior events.

          Double points could then be used for Sunday races!

  2. Re: Verstappen ‘wiping the floor’ with Kvyat in the simulator

    I wonder how Max stacks up to Ricciardo and Sainz in the simulator. I mean who knows Kvyat could be, like Kimi, simply be not so good in the simulator since you can’t feel the same things as in the real car.

  3. “Should the Manor Racing team make the fourth race of the campaign then Force India and the other teams will not receive their £45m prize money from 2014.

    se means Manor Racing will then be eligible for

    This would of course see Force India and the other teams”

    Where do the last two lines go, and what has been left off them?

    Anderson: My first thought was, what about collisions in the Saturday sprint; my second, nobody’s going to want to win the sprint and start at the back, so gaming that rule will be interesting.

    • Yeah, a quick reading edit by someone else might be helpful before posting the articles. Seems lots of confusing phrasing/grammar is getting by lately. I know quite a few people don’t like grammar police, but……….. it makes a difference in perception/credibility.

  4. In a simulator there isn’t any real pressure. Nor Is there at a test. Only thing that counts are the races. I’ll judge it after some races… don’t forget he is a part of the playstation generation. And a simulator is just a big (and more expensive) playstation.

    • The simulator is a quite important part of how teams develop the cars given unlimited testing is banned. It’s quite a contrite thing to say it’s a more expensive playstation. It’s pretty complicated involving a lot of physics. The true measure of the simulator is how parts developed back at the factory perform in the simulator and out on the race track. If they match then the team knows everything is working as expected i.e. from the drawing board to CFD, Wind tunnel models, simulator, race track.

      As for Verstappen, it’s too early to judge him. If he gets promoted to the main Red Bull team and holds his own against Riccardo then a lot of people will have eggs on their faces. Anyway playstation generation ? More like the Xbox, Nintendo and Playstation Generation 😉

      • I know it’s a bit more than a playstation but it is, nevertheless, nothing like the real deal.

        • Nothing like?? It’s exactly the same, just with an emphasis on the visual skills. Real life has an emphasis on the g-force feel. Any physics differences can help your adaptability.

          You need all three to be a top driver.. Hence the top youngsters like Vandoorne and Stanaway can still blow everyone away in online competition, even though their focus is the real deal.

          Mardenborough and Ordonez were just announced for the Nissan LMP1 (GT Academy winners). I myself just did a Nurburgring sim-lap not too far off WTCC winner Norbert Michelisz..

        • It’s about as close as the teams can get to testing other than all breaking the FIA’s testing rules at the same time forcing the FIA into giving up on the rule.

  5. I am Danii Kvyat fan and today reading about situation in Red Bull wasn´t too positive. I am on this website for the first time (so I don´t know how reliable is this source) but I was little shocked when I was reading this article.

    I calculate with fact that Daniil will be at the start of the season slower than Daniel but I hope that there will be some races when Russian racer will suprise. But will Daniil have chance in Sochi for example? Good question.

    • Welcome to TJ13!

      We at TJ13 indulge ourselves in a mix of facts and reasonable speculation, given the public data and sometimes insider knowledge available. We also take a stab at connecting the dots that are glaringly missed by mainstream media. Some other times the tea leaves and the heart trees are whispering to us. So the golden rule around here is to read, then read elsewhere, take a second to mull it through via a critical lens, and then make your own damn opinion. 🙂

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhzNhLgPX9o

      And then share it with the others in the comments, or via a Voice of the Fans feature…

      Re Red Bull. The signs are unfortunately ominous and worrying for them:
      http://thejudge13.com/2015/02/12/f1-are-red-bull-in-real-trouble/

      Since 2006, the team was exclusively centered around the needs of Newey, and since 2009 around those of Vettel. Now both are gone. So too is Peter Prodromou ( http://thejudge13.com/2015/02/15/voice-of-f1-fans-why-does-everyone-seem-to-think-that-its-all-down-to-the-power-unit-now/comment-page-1/ ), and a couple of other chums that were no doubt integral to the team’s recent dominance. With yet another shaky start from Renault, and with Spice Boy (aka Christian Horner) having no long-term succession plan in place for Newey’s departure, things are looking bleak indeed for the Austrian team… So not the best moment for Daniil to jump in.

      Re Kvyat. The whiff in the air seems to be that Daniil is very much an unknown quantity right now. Last year he got beaten overall by JEV (or at most matched him). This year he shall no longer have the weight advantage. And just like Magnussen, he risks getting too many expectations too quickly under too much spotlight in a top team against a fiery teammate. My feeling is that just like Verstappen, it’s simply a tad too quickly to get promoted for him, and that he may have a tough time dealing with it all; and that JEV would have been the no-brainer solution for Red Bull this year. But hey! Red Bull are all about performance these days… Either way, trashing the only front wing on his first day in testing in Jerez and then putting it into the gravel on his 2nd day will have done his confidence no favors…

      You may wish to see the TJ13 wrap-up of the 1st winter testing, and the Battle of the Dan’s podcast:
      http://thejudge13.com/2015/02/06/f1-testing-jerez-review-sherry-and-icecream/
      http://thejudge13.com/2015/02/12/tj13-f1-courtroom-podcast-a-sad-and-pathetic-attempt-to-impose-order/

      • Wow. That is the probably the best response I have ever read here. Spice Boy needs to go.

      • Guys!! You are amazing!! I am shocked that I found a server like this! I am starting to enjoy next tests like never before!

        And about Daniil. Yes, you are right. I think that Jéan Eric should replace Sebastian because he was easily in deciding moment better than Slavic racer. Jean has also brilliant defense. On the other hand there were some races where Jean was slower than Danii (Spa, Monza, Japan, Abu Dhabi, Monaco) so maybe Red Bull (and me too) thought that he has great talent. We will see.

        Btw. What did you mean when you wrote “Kimi streak”?

        PS: What do you think about idea of Gary Anderson? I find it little stupid.

        • Ahoj again!

          Re “Kimi streak”: Kimi is fabled in these corners for his vodka drinking… I guess people are making fun of Finns/Russians indulging themselves in too much of the transparent stuff to keep warm… 🙂

          • How do you know how to say “Hallo” in our language?

            And yes, people from Czech Republic make fun of Russians but not of Finns.

  6. RE: Gary Anderson’s reverse grids..

    With all due respect, I don’t think F1 should retort to gimmick tricks like reverse grids, success ballast, double points, or subjective balance of performance rules for the sake of good show. The reverse grid would make a mockery of the concept of F1 being a sport. This would take the sport out of “motorsport” and replace that with a “motorshow”… or a casino. On the other hand, having more racing (e.g. a small sprint on Saturday) could be something interesting.

  7. Re Gary Anderson full stop.
    If he was actually as good as he thought he once was, he still would be involved in a more useful position then lose cannon.

  8. Max will wipe the floor with sainz junior, max is faster in practise/testing/Sim then Junior, he is faster in the simulator, one gary harnstein [Former F1 doctor], and this guy worked wth alonso, raikkonen, vettel, schumacher, hamilton and hakkinen etc, said Max was better then all of them… the only thing.. his brain at 17 was not completely developed, thus he said ” if max is now lacking some cognitive development, god help us all, because he is gonna win every race, forever” when his brain is fully developed….

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uggVZZkOnM&feature=youtu.be [@4:10]

    • I would hold my horses until Maximilian shows his worth. The trouble with wunderkinds is that although they tend to have incredibly impressive meteoric rises, they tend to hit a ceiling when confronted with experienced experts in their fields. So that Verstappen will rise to the level of Hamilton, Alonso or Vettel is not a given… Not yet, anyways.

    • Since you’re in the business of fortune telling, you wouldn’t happen to know what the Euro lottery numbers for tomorrow will be? I could use an extra couple million

    • I’m just happy that we have Hamilton, Alonso, and Vettel. Great drivers in dismal times. If Max can join them fine. Maybe folks should just worry about Max being a Jenson or a Kimi. That’s very entertaining too.

      • I think people should be more concerned with Max just being Max and stop proclaiming him to be the next coming

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