78 responses to “#F1 Daily News and Comment: Wednesday 12th November 2014”

1. I’m reading too much briatore, please lot him stay on his yacht. I’m getting scared of him getting involved with F1 once more.

   • I’m reading too much briatore,

     Well, if you’d like to read the antidote to Briatore, check out what Dr. Gary Hartstein (safely “out” of F1 and so able to comment freely) says about this, that and the other (F1?)-thing in this Q&A that I invited the Judge and his court staff and all court attendees to participate in…with no obvious response. (maybe everyone picked new pseudonyms over there)

     Anyway, it was fascinating, rapid-fire and almost no trolling at all – just good questions and quick, quick witted responses.

     it was really well-received and Dr. Hartstein answered a huge number of questions from normal F1 fans:

     Hi! I’m Gary Hartstein (@former_f1doc), and I’m starting my AMA (ask me anything)

     “Ask me anything, and I’ll give pretty much anything reasonable a shot at an answer. Only for an hour, though, so c’mon in.”

     http://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/2lz9wx/hi_im_gary_hartstein_former_f1doc_and_im_starting/

     Please check it out and read through the questions and answers at your leisure – i imagine some enterprising soul could write up a brief summary to use as content on their website(S) but for now, just this comment here crom me.

     Cheers.

     • Thanks! Took a while…

2. Shame about Massa. Often he comes across as very likeable guy and I have wanted to see him do well in his F1 career.

   But then he mugs himself off by dragging up the crap about Glock again.

   Move on…

   • he’s well within his reason to be sore, also, let’s not forget that Glock had his web site attacked by germans, and had some doubts cast about his “slow” lap even considering the weather

     • I’ve never heard that any Germans attacked Glock’s website. Where did you pick up that rubbish?
       Had Glock gone into the pits for wet tyres, Hamilton would have been past anyway and besides, without Vettel overtaking Lewis the question of Massa possibly winning the title would never have come up, because thos two or three laps where the only time Lewis was worse than sixth. Absolute rubbish. Massa has a bit of a bumhurt moment again, that’s all there is to it. He should be sore about Singapore, as he was cheated out of a possible win by the deliberately caused accident of Renault. At the time he was leading comfortably and only due to the rigged SC Ferrari fell apart.

       • And without Kubica unlapping himself and apparently brake testing Hamilton, Vettel may not have had the opportunity.

         • Hamilton ran wide, Kubica had nothing to do with it.

         • Kubica unlapped himself and Hamilton stalled.

       • he hit Piquet Jr quite heavily in some interviews, and also, Glock web site was attacked at the time, no rubbish really

     • The fans that were upset are sore because most likely they could not stomach seeing LH winning a WDC. The Glock thing gave them some very flakey ammunition to have a good old cry IMO

       • Massa is a big cry baby no doubt about that, but still you have to be a paranoid hamiltosi to think it was anti-Hamilton move to blame Glock. It was in Brazil for crying out loud. Their first chance after senna and probably last in decades to win WDC to Brazil. Of course the locals are going to be upset.

   • i think it’s understandable. massa showed grace at the time, but then again, he was in a position where it was likely he’d get another chance. after his accident the following season, everything changed. i’m not sure if it was the accident, the car, or if hockenheim 2010 just broke his spirit, but i can understand if he looks back and is bitter.

     • Being bitter about something is one thing, but going into baseless xenophobic rants is just showing a lack of class. He more or less sides with those hools, who back on that day were responsible that Toyota had to flee the circuit under protection of the police.

       • So would you agree that Nico’s xenophobic rant at Spa, showed a lack of class?… 😉 🙂

       • mind you, in 2009 they threw bananas at Lewis, totally absurd

         here in BR those who attend the GP, are from upper classes, the same right winged xenophobic people who are now fleeing to Miami after the leftist reelection

     • why the “awaiting moderation”
       I haven’t said nothing out of the rulebook

       is there an automatic filter for block ?

3. Oh Felipe baby…… Spa 2008

4. “It’s between 35 and 40 million euros (to run a third car),” team boss Christian Horner is quoted

   If true, that equates to c.70m for a 2 car team – which is a great deal more than doled out to the backmarkers.

   • That is before you factor in design and development and various other costs. Running additional cars become relatively cheaper once you have done the base work, but still remain very expensive.

     • My point was that it would be more sensible to distribute some of that 35m per car to the lower teams & keep them in the game, rather than force (or subsidise) Ferrari/Red Bull/Merc etc to run third cars in their place.

       (As a thought experiment, which would Ferrari rather do, run a third car, or give Sauber free/much cheaper engines for a season ?)

       • I think they would have done the cheap engines for Sauber, as they did for Marussia. But that is dependent on running their young driver (Bianchi), so once he was sidelined, I get the feeling that Ferrari foreclosed on their Marussia debt pretty quickly.

         It’s odd how many drivers attached to Ferrari (Schumi, Massa, Kubica, Bianchi) have been hurt in recent years; arguably, they all should have driven instead of Massa or now Kimi.. perhaps if they didn’t play so safe, there could have been different outcomes.. not that anyone could have foreseen what eventually happened.

   • Dont forget that would be lower due to the saved r and d that is done for the first 2 anyway

   • Maybe I’m missing something re the three car team concept, if so please explain. The FIA Sporting regulations state:

     13.6 No more than 26 cars will be admitted to the Championship, two being entered by each competitor.

     So two cars are entered by each team, by regulation. My understanding is the regulations can be changed for the next year only by a unanimous vote of the teams. So wouldn’t a single ‘no’ vote prevent three car teams? Or does the change rule only apply to the technical regulations?

     It would seem Bernie can’t just say ‘three cars’, the FIA would have to change the rules. If the FIA didn’t change the two car rule, would Bernie possibly be in violation of his minimum grid agreements with the tracks? Would the FIA then be able to cancel their (stupid) 100 year contract with CVC?

     What am I missing here?

5. Super GP2′ plan to boost F1 grid

   –

   did anyone else see this (Autosport) ?

   –

   During discussions between teams and Ecclestone at the Brazilian Grand Prix, one idea put forward was for a two-tier F1 to be created in the future.

   As well as the usual constructors, the grid could be filled with upgraded GP2-type single-make cars, which would be run by customer teams.

   Force India deputy team principal Bob Fernley said the idea had been laid out as a possibility, and that it had fuelled fears that Ecclestone wants the smaller teams out.

   “There is an alternative, which is ‘Super GP2’,” said Fernley. “It would be similar to a GP2 car with an upgraded engine.

   “The clear direction we are getting is that there is a desire to have five constructor teams and five customer teams, which will be the best way that they [the sport’s owners] feel to go.”

   Sauber team boss Monisha Kaltenborn thinks that the vision of a customer scenario like Super GP2 is worrying because it shows Ecclestone and CVC are looking at a future without smaller outfits.

   “Looking at the proposals which have been made, we have to believe that there is some agenda here,” she said.

   “The agenda seems to be that people are looking at four or five names to remain in here and, when ideas are offered to us of a year-old chassis or engines which maybe are a different spec or whatever, or even a different series, there must be an agenda.

   “And since nobody is reacting to it in front we don’t know whose agenda it is.”

   She added that the current atmosphere and the nature of solutions being suggested was making progress tough.

   “These things are changing every day. But the fact is it cannot go on like this, it’s no way we want to work and can work,” said Kaltenborn.

   “The more these ideas are coming up, the more we three get the feeling that maybe some people don’t want us to be around and maybe the sport is supposed to be changed in a very different way.”

   • And Bloomberg falls for Bernie’s propaganda: http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-11/formula-1-seen-facing-ipo-hitch-as-two-teams-face-closure.html
     What IPO? The market would make mince meat off F1. Again a story which handsomely can be used both to inflate the value of F1 (close to IPO !!$!!) and deflate it (again no IPO, crisis!!!).

6. Re: Double points

   I feel it will have an impact. Just imagine a contact in the tight first corner and a damaged front wing. Spa was a high speed circuit whereas Abu Dhabi is not so. Redbull, Williams, Mclaren and to an extent Ferrari may be competitive. So Lewis is under tremendous pressure to deliver what was expected out of him since the start of this year.

   Further in 2010 Alonso threw away an 8 point lead to webber and a 15 point lead to vettel knowing what they had to do. Poor strategy from ferrari also cost them. In 2012, vettel almost threw away a 13 point lead. So being in the lead for the final race/title showdown means you are under more pressure than your opponent coz. your opponent has nothing to lose and u have everything to lose on the contrary.

   Its all to play for in the finale. And if there is any pressure to deliver it is more on Lewis than Nico. I disagree with DC and Fortis 96 in this regard.

   • So what about Nico? Are you saying that he’s got no pressure on him and he’s just going to turn up and deliver the goods just like that?

     What you also failed to acknowledge with regards to DC’s comments, was he also said, “when both cars are normal, they’re a lock to finish 1-2”, theyve already got 11.

     We’ve all heard it before, this or that team maybe competitive at this or that track and they may pose a problem for both Mercedes driver, but come the end of the race, they occupy the first two positions.

     I’m not sure you can even compare 2010 to this season. Back then, the cars were all closer in performance, not so this year, it has been a cake walk from the first test in Jerez. 3 times this season we’ve seen a Merc drive all the way from the back of the grid to be on the podium, so you tell me know, exactly which car on the grid can stop the Mercs? Did you miss the race in Bahrain? Did you miss Singapore? Their only concern for the race is mechanical failure or someone taking them out. So if they lock out the front row, which I think we all expect them to do, then the moment they can get around the first lap scratch free, then expect them to do what they’ve been doing all year, pull away from everyone at over a second a lap.

     • No. In terms of pressure, if there is something like that its more on Lewis than Nico as Lewis was expected to deliver this title once all understood that Mercedes was the class of the field.

       Further in 2010 for Abu Dhabi atleast the Redbulls and Mclarens were faster than ferrari. Also in Brazil 2012, Ferrari was slower than Mclarens, Redbulls and Hulkenberg’s Force India. Despite all this the conditions/circumstances played a part in the title decider.

       As i see it, Lewis is under more pressure to deliver.

       • Both drivers are under pressure to deliver. For Lewis he’s got the experience of being in this type of situation, Nico hasn’t and like I said in a comment yesterday, Nico has shown that he cracks when he’s under pressure to deliver a result.

         • … and Hamilton doesn’t? Check out those 50 pence piece tyres in Austin qualifying

         • @the judge…

           I guess you didn’t see where I said, “both drivers”….

           As for the 50 pence piece tyres in Austin, would those be the set from Q3?…

           Hmmm I thought the ones that matter, were the ones you set your fastest time on in Q2

         • ….. I think you should watch Austin qualifying again….

         • That’s a mute point you’re trying to make judge. He won the race and the flat spot on the tyres didn’t affect him at all, something that both he and the team said weren’t going to be a problem in the race.

         • @ Fotris69

           ” That’s a mute point ….. ”

           I think you’ll find that a MOOT point ….

   • …Yes but this Mercedes car is so dominant – Vettel managed to drive through the field here with a Renault V8 which was less powerful than the Mercedes engine.

     There is another factor – Hamilton may pointlessly risk putting his car in the wall – as he risked in Brazil when 2nd was all he required… and ended up with –

     • One more point is Redbull decided to start vettel from pitlane in 2012 so that they could change the set up to aid overtaking. We saw in Hungary this year that Mercedes with a high downforce package could not overtake a Ferrari. Further as you pointed out, Hamilton may also put his car in the wall.

       I fee the compromise of Mercedes for Sector 2 Vs. other sectors here is the key if one of them fall behind due to some unavoidable circumstance.

       • PS: I failed to add to 2012 that Vettel’s drive through the field was helped by one or two Safety cars. If i remember correctly just after his second stop, we had a safety car.

       • “We saw in Hungary this year that Mercedes with a high downforce package could not overtake a Ferrari. Further as you pointed out, Hamilton may also put his car in the wall”

         Firstly, in Hungary, the team reported that after his 2nd stop, the car was losing power that cost him 1/2 second per lap, so let’s not talk about failing to get pass a prancing donkey.

         As him possibly putting his car in the wall…. Now what would make you think that? When was the last time you saw him do something like that? What makes you think that it won’t be Nico who puts his car in the wall?

         • Fortis96, where did you hear this about the power loss in Hungary? And you said they only knew about it AFTER the 2nd stop? Mercedes not putting Lewis onto the faster strategy, when he had effectively cleared Nico on track, was always suspicious to me (seeing as he had all brand new options). If they only knew after, then I’d still question the strategy; if before, then it would be an explanation. There was nothing in the pit radio about it (at least the stuff we get to hear/read), that’s for sure.

         • @KRB

           It was reported after the race by both Paddy and Lewis, I also think Peter Windsor covered the story as well in his race debrief. It wasn’t broadcast over the radio

     • He didn’t spin because he was risking anything and had the team brought him in the lap before, then I doubt that spin would’ve occured. And like he said, the protocol for ‘hammertim’, is one hot in lap before he boxed, the team strategist wanted 2, hence the radio message.

       Here’s what really caused the spin….

       “Out through the kink of three and onto the short straight he was asked to make an energy recovery switch change to increase the harvesting rate. He did so, but in the busy intensity of the moment didn’t make a compensating forwards brake bias change. As he stood on the brakes for turn four, still pushing like crazy, he’d just entered ‘negative’ – i.e. he was on schedule for the first time to come out ahead of Rosberg. But those worn tyres, with the inappropriate braking bias working upon them, could take no more of it. The outer rear locked and in a thrice Hamilton was trying to rescue a major oversteer moment, one that only gathered momentum as the track headed downhill.”

       Judge what you failed to forget about Seb’s drive through the field was, Seb was suppose to have started from the back of the grid, but the team took the car out of parc ferme and as such, changed his car to a Spa low downforce setting, thus increasing his top speed. Also he was aided by 2 safety cars, so I’m not so sure he would’ve achieved such a feet had it not been for that.

       Also judge, these aren’t V8s. Like I said, if both cars get round the first lap safely, then they’ll drive away from the field.

       • ….he only needed 2nd place – he took a risk by pushing to get first….

         • Yes he did judge, we all know that…

           But like I mentioned, the team wanted him to squeeze out a 2nd lap at the same pace as the first on tyres that had no more life left in them. So to say ‘he’ took the risk, fails to include what the team asked of him.

         • …which is better to do in the penultimate race rather than the last race. Best to risk all in Brazil and at worst be 1 point down for the last race with all to play for, rather than risk all in the last race and lose out on the title.
           Then again, it’s Lewis, the boy just wants to win! He’s not a calculating Alonso/Button/Rosberg type of driver.

         • Maybe you’d expect that from the Lewis of 2011, but the Lewis since, has driven better than any other time since he’s been in the sport.

         • That mentality is not the stuff of champions – He goes out to win everytime. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn’t, but that’s what the guy’s all about and that is why he can get results in certain situations when others can’t.

         • …and that’s why he isn’t already a double world champion…

         • and he’ll right that wrong come Abu Double

         • …Ra ra ra….

           For those of us who know him – which also includes a significant number of race team individuals who have worked closely – day in day out – with Lewis during his time in Formula One – we know he is prone to huge swings in mood – and has yet to prove he can be a stable individual for an extended period of time…

           Nicole’s recent announcement that she is relocating from LA may be great for Lewis – though as TJ13 exclusively reported previously – arguments between the two over babies and ‘security’ have in the past coincided with Lewis dramatically ‘losing focus’.

           Lewis should nail the F1 WDC this year…

           However, questions will remain for some time to come regarding his mental fragility – and until there has been an extended period of time where he desists from…. eg calling senior team personnel liars…. amongst other emotional outbursts….. nothing is certain about how Lewis may or may not behave in future.

           So claiming Lewis has ‘proven’ anything regarding susceptibility to pressure/mental fragility etc etc is a nonsense…

           But he has demonstrated at times a far greater level of fragility than most other drivers in Formula One at present… and only time will tell whether he is now beyond those feelings and expressions.

           You are correct though in observing that at present – Lewis is maintaining a calm and collected approach to his world and the task in hand.

         • And those of us who knows him….would that include you?

           Just like how you’ll find engineers who see him as how you described him, you’ll also find those who share a different opinion.

           As for the rest of your rant, maybe someone should reprogram him and insert a Lt Data type chip in him, maybe that will remove all forms of emotion that we human beings are prone to show on a day to day basis. Because his behaviour is no different to that off drivers in the pass and those we see now.

           For some reason I think your still p!ssed off because he didn’t pull over and let Nico get by. But if you feel the need to continually flog someone because of their past indiscretions, then I doubt there’ll ever be any hope for him, because you’ll just be sitting waiting for the first slip up to go…. “See I knew it, I knew he’s still the same person”

           Maybe you should invite him up to your country house and you educate him in the ways of how to operate as an upstanding individual.

           So Ra ra ra judge….

         • You should keep in mind that the latest instances of “See I knew it, I knew he’s still the same person” are not that far in the past, namely Hungary and Spa, with showing the team up publicly, breaking agreements and discussing team internals with the press. That is way more current then – let’s say – Monaco. So it’s not that the old geezer with the gavel is digging up corpses from the last century.

         • ….exactly the point….. time will tell… and he are in what may be a permanent ‘new state’ but possibly just yet another hiatus….

         • @hippo…

           So again I’ll ask the question…

           How is that different to what we see from all the drivers on the grid each race weekend?

           Fred has been calling and throwing Ferrari under the bus for years and no one calls him out on it. That might happen on this blog, but when you look at mainstream media, he’s got them eating out of the Palm of his hands. I don’t see the likes of Stewart, Watson or Murray blasting him for comments he makes or say that he should just shut up and drive his car. But rather what we get his how badly he has been treated by Ferrari and he deserves a championship winning car.

           So is Lewis being held to a different standard than his fellow drivers?

         • ….remind me which other driver called his ‘team’ liars…. and which other driver came running out of a private team debrief and declared tot he world his team mate had deliberately taken him out of a race….. “he did it.. he did it….. ask Paddy… ask Toto”..

           …and that’s just this years highlights…..

         • @the judge….

           No man is without their flaws.

         • ….lol….. @Fortis… you are incorrigible…

           …an excellent olive branch though – I’ll take it 😉

         • Let’s see, what was it that Martin Brundle said about Lewis’ Spa comments…

           “That was a good move by Lewis, he wanted to get the team back on his side, it’s all part of the chess pieces within such an intense rivalry for the championship”….. Something along those lines.

           F1 is not just about driving fast, you’ve also got to play the political games as well, Alonso, Jenson, Seb etc, they all do. So touché to him, I guess the ‘mentally weak boy’ is becoming a man.

           There may not be any current drivers who has done so, but I’m sure that he’s not the first to do so.

           But just for my clarification, at what point did he come out and basically call his team ‘liars’?

         • …. it was Monaco… post the team having to attend a stewards enquiry….

         • @the judge….

           And an olive branch I will accept my good man…. 😉

         • “remind me which other driver called his ‘team’ liars…. and which other driver came running out of a private team debrief and declared tot he world his team mate had deliberately taken him out of a race….. “he did it.. he did it….. ask Paddy… ask Toto”..

           …and that’s just this years highlights…..”

           Well im sorry but if your team mate says that he took you out to prove a point, cheating you out of a posible win, then you have every right to be miffed. Stop with this “oh its not professional” rubbish – f*ck professional, all rules go out the window due to that admission. What would have proved a bigger point was if he had overtaken him on track to win the race seeing as he was bleating on about how he was quicker than him.

           It was a media masterstroke by Lewis, which got Rosberg into sh!t with the fans and unsettled him – much like rosberg did to Lewis in Monaco right judge? A driver using everything in his armoury springs to mind…..

         • Bah. It doesn’t matter which button or lever Lewis failed to pull at what moment, and it also doesn’t matter what his team asked him to do over the radio. The fact is he made the mistake(s) and spun off trying to take the lead from Nico. Nico gets blamed (rightly) for his mistakes, no reason why Lewis shouldn’t get blamed for his.

         • @judge13, what’s the quote that you’re referencing to say that Lewis called Mercedes liars at Monaco?

           As for saying his racer’s mentality is why he’s not a double world champion already, what other years do you think he should’ve been champion? In 2007 China, he was doing like you always say for him to do, he was doing what the team asked of him, even though it turned out to be a disastrous and unnecessary gamble. In Brazil, with the gearbox gremlins … was that not mighty suspicious? Have we seen something like that happen to anyone since?

           2012 was a write off … quick car, but not reliable. Much like the 1984 Brabham-BMW. 2010 was a possibility, but again like 2008 would’ve been b/c the team with the best car flubbed it. No chance in the rest of his seasons.

           As for this year’s DWC, if Hamilton DNF’s through unreliability, will it be cruel luck, or will the stance change to he has “failed to close”? If both cars finish, I’m confident of a Hamilton DWC, but on the whole, I’m not at all confident of it.

   • Hamilton can easily let Rosberg take pole and then just let him take the first corner and let him sail off in the distance while he secures 2nd place, nursing the car and everything.

     You conveniently forget that Rosberg being WDC or not is in Hamilton’s hands. And Hamilton, while a very slow learner, can eventually learn over time.

7. Ginger Spice and Horner got engaged?!

   • What about the women who had his baby last season, she must be well happy……..Am I expecting too much from Horner given his lack of moral fibre in other situations. I can see the Jeremy Kyle show tag line now, “Dumped for a spice girl, but I’m still holding your baby”
     LoL

   • But he has demonstrated at times a far greater level of fragility than most other drivers in Formula One at present… and only time will tell whether he is now beyond those feelings and expressions.

     [modded] Its base on the fact that Lewis didnt take the championship in his rooki year against an experience double world champion in Alonso and a Mclaren team mired in scandal…we know that you lot the Sir Jacky stewart,John watson and Prost of the world ,have been waiting all year for some unicron mystical hamilton melt down.but it aint gonna happen….Dudai will be a clinical ,simple almost anticlimactic for those of you wish a Lewis stumble…..and Lewis will be champ again…punto basta.

     [mod] Last warning. Another instance of underlying racist allegations/insinuations and you’ll be on permanent moderated posting.

     • I find it quite puzzling that when it comes to Lewis Hamilton, everything form of criticism is accepted, from how he dresses, people he associates with, religion, music interest, partner down to his dogs, but the moment race is mentioned and the fact there it becomes a taboo subject?

       • Because the statement I modded was a racist slur.

         • Are you referring to his statements about ‘you lot, the Stewarts, Prosts of this world’, etc? Because I didn’t see any mention of race. Maybe missed it

         • No it was something else and I won’t repeat it.

         • Hat tip to you Mr Hippo, I know it pains you guys to mod comments, so I’ll take the fact you felt it necessary to show how distasteful it must have been.

       • Well, race isn’t/shouldn’t be an issue.. those other cultural things, sure. They are choices.

     • You’re only half awake mod – it was posted in the wrong place too….

       • We can’t change that. So if the poster just whacks it onto the wrong thread, we can’t correct that.

         • Fair enough (tho’ I can see a simple work ’round).

     • @ Samaritan

       total and utter drivel …..

8. Let them eat cake

   http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/let-them-eat-cake/

   Some things never change! Note the date of the interview quote.

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