#F1 Daily News and Comment: Wednesday, 24th September 2014


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Previously on TheJudge 13:

#F1 Forensics : Mercedes plays hide n seek with opponents

OTD Lite: 2000 – Todt shows leadership – what happened since?

Doubt cast on Mercedes explanation for Rosberg failure

The next Schumacher is coming?

We are red, but we are also very green

Valentino Rossi was offered a Ferrari contract

Cartoonist unlocks real reason for Rosberg’s failure

F1 enters new technology race with 4K transmission

Caterham will have rubber to compete in Japan

Vergne hopes 2015 employer noticed Singapore drive (GMM)

Hamilton worth the money

Nothing like piling on the pressure eh Marko?

OTD Lite: 2000 – Todt shows leadership – what happened since?

d06chn581With what appears one of the most ineffective Presidency’s in living memory, Jean Todt walks cautiously around the international paddocks of the world with an inane grin and knowing twinkle in his eye. He role as the leader of the governing body of World Motorsport is continuously shown as a submissive organisation – very different in texture to his predecessor’s role within the FIA.

It wasn’t always so.

Having joined Ferrari in 1993 with the remit from the much missed Padrino, Todt set about rebuilding a squad that had become rudderless over the previous seasons. The changes he brought into the organisation transformed the Scuderia from has beens to the most daunting force the sport had ever seen.

On this day, Schumacher won the US Grand Prix held at Indianapolis and took a decided advantage in his quest for championship glory. But Todt shocked many by his attention to detail in regards the start procedure. With rain having fallen an hour before the race, the yard of bricks on the start/finish line were like ice which would have punished the accelerating Ferrari of poleman Schumi.

After his request to have the surface ground down – so as to give better adhesion – was declined, he suggested moving the grid back one row. Of course, as has been famously pointed out – this Ferrari ‘cheating and lobbying’ earnt the FIA the title of Ferrari International Assistance. I wonder if he could be enticed back now Luca has departed the building…\

The Jackal


Doubt cast on Mercedes explanation for Rosberg failure

A report appeared on the Italian website – Omnicorse – yesterday which alluded to the unlikely retirement of Nico Rosberg being a simple breakage in the steering column or steering wheel as was initially suspected by the Brackley based team.

Twice the technicians tried to change the steering wheel – believing this to be the cause of the problem. First whilst assembled on the grid before the race started and then subsequently at his pit-stop. To quote the site: “the operation did not yield the results the engineers led by Paddy Lowe expected.” (Which to readers of this site is hardly a ground-breaking revelation).

Rosberg suffered a malfunction of significant parts of his electronic package; including a radio that worked intermittently, the loss of DRS and a hybrid system which worked sporadically.

But according to an electronics technician who works in F1 it is very unlikely that these connectors would break in an environment as aggressive as an F1 cockpit – no matter how much easier the cars are physically to drive now. The steering wheels have become essentially real-time computers and if it was a physical problem it would have been remedied by a pitstop costing a few seconds.

The source was awarded anonymity by the publication and it is unclear if he was employed by the German team or a rival but the likely scenario is that the problem was down to engine mapping which if incorrectly run would have sent conflicting information to the steering wheels computer and preventing its correct operation.


The next Schumacher is coming?

kuDGHCWHLcoNot many people paid attention to a 14 year old called Mick Betsch racing in the Kart world championship’s KF-junior class. Some might have raised a puzzled eyebrow when said youngster suddenly changed his name and now was filing his entry under the name Mick Junior. The teenager in question is none other than Michael Schumacher’s oldest son Mick. The trick of using his mother’s maiden name worked well until recently, but coming second in the world championship is not lending itself well to staying under the radar, and ‘Mick Junior’ did exactly that.

The youngster won five qualification races at the final round at Ennay, France and finished the final race in the runner-up position, driving as a works driver for Tony Kart, a position he shared with his father until Michael’s near-fatal accident last year. The chassis that Mick is driving this year has been developed by none other than Schumacher Snr, a luxury we won’t be able to enjoy next year.

What he does have, undoubtedly is the Schumacher genes. With the runner-up spot in the K-Junior class, he surpassed the karting pedigree of both his father and the latter’s close fiend Sebastian Vettel, who both ‘merely’ managed a European title and never made it to champion or runner-up in the world championship at that age.

But from now on it might be an uphill struggle for young Mick. With a seven times world champion for a father and another multiple Grand Prix winner for an uncle, he’ll probably have no shortage of high-profile contacts and the Schumacher family isn’t exactly known to be poor, so his career won’t run dry for lack of funds, but that’s about it.

He has to go up against a mammoth legacy. If it was bad for the likes of Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve – imagine being compared to Michael Schumacher! Ask Seb – it’s a bloody uphill battle. Since Michael will most likely never fully recover, the intense support of his famous father is now gone as well, although Mick Junior is hardly an abandoned puppy. In addition to the world championship for Tony Kart, he also contests the German Championship for the KSM Motorsports team of Peter Kaiser, who took over as Mick’s mentor after Michael’s accident.

Kaiser already mentored Michael and Ralf and seems to have another promising Schumacher at hand. Ahead of the final round at Genk, Belgium, Mick is championship leader in the German championship.


We are red, but we are also very green

For Ferrari the race at Singapore was everything but a resounding success. While Kimi – again – managed to pull off the miracle of being completely and utterly invisible, despite sitting in a bright red car, Fernando Alonso, who for all intents and purposes should have finished on the podium was shafted by the safety car.

Alonso’s pace, however was quite good and one is left to speculate if that was helped by the new Shell fuel that was used for the first time in Singapore. Now, you’re not much fun at parties if you know a lot about fuel, but Shell’s ‘juice’ in Singapore was noteworthy in the fact that for the first time it wasn’t made from oil, but from natural gas as the primary resource.

In addition to the smaller environmental footprint, Shell expects that the new fuel also reduces wear on the engine.


Valentino Rossi was offered a Ferrari contract

“I always watch F1 and I really like Ricciardo and Bottas, they are going strong and are as great as Alonso and Vettel. There is also Hamilton who often comes to see the MotoGP races and even in F1 there are so many young drivers that are improving.”

If he had made different choices a few years ago, these drivers would be his contemporaries rather than athletes in a different series. Valentino Rossi had a contract to drive for Ferrari in 2007 and partner Kimi Raikkonen. He had tested for Ferrari extensively since 2004 and had impressed both the team and its lead driver, a certain Michael Schumacher.

In the 2006 F1 test at Valencia a crowd of over 20,000 turned up to watch him in action – something that riled Fernando Alonso considerably and led to him suggesting that he could take on Rossi on bikes. Rossi extended a challenge, F1 cars, motor bikes and rally cars but the impetuous Fernando claimed he was too busy.

Sadly, the dream was never to be and he remained in MotoGP. “I went to Valencia to make a test with the Ferrari and it was beautiful, very charming but honestly I did not have the heart to stop with the bike because I knew I still have many years ahead, good for a bet very charming but also very risky , and then I decided to stay in MotoGP. “

“At first I tried to joke, I liked it, but after the first test I started to get serious. It was a very fascinating and risky bet. In 2006, I was already a step away from trying at the wheel of Ferrari. “


“I’ve never regretted it, I think I made the right choice, because then I won two more World titles. In 2008 I passed Stoner at the Corkscrew and Lorenzo at last corner in Barcelona in 2009, this alone has made it all worth while.”


Cartoonist unlocks real reason for Rosberg’s failure

Who said it was only the British and Vettel who could do humour..


Ok Lewis! …now we are even!…


F1 enters new technology race with 4K transmission

With all attention on the action on the track, most people would not have realised the historic event being played out against the Asian backdrop. During a Free Practice session, 4K television was transmitted to the FOM headquarters in Biggin Hill with employees being the guinea pigs of this new chapter in television.

Mehuk Kapadia, Managing Director of Tata F1 Business Communication was pleased with the results, ” For the first time in history, we sent an F1 event in 4K. This date is a landmark in the history of the sport, and show the real potential of new technologies. Quality and speed of transmission of images have never been so high. “

The challenge to broadcast across the fibre optic network is still considerable. Whereas a normal transmission requires 120 megabits of bandwidth – the test at Biggin Hill required speeds in excess of 480 mbps.

Kapadia continued, “Consumers rightly become more and more demanding and as a leader in the fibre optic industry we can provide them with what they want. The test from Singapore has been very useful in this regard.”

Obviously, Bernie is currently using his abacus to work out what he can charge a diminishing audience… and then add 80%.


Caterham will have rubber to compete in Japan

For some weeks news has filtered through of the imminent demise of the Caterham team. Since early in the year when Tony Fernandes gave the workforce a rousing speech of without success this would be their final season to the sale of the team to a Swiss/ Middle Eastern concern that has never placed funds in the direction of Leafield things are distinctly not rosy in the Camp of the Green Monster.

Yesterday, it was reported by Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf that Caterham were in such dire financial troubles that they would be without Pirelli tyres at the forthcoming Japanese Grand Prix. Today Pirelli has confirmed that Caterham will have tyres until the end of the season and there are no problems.

Roberto Boccafogli – Pirelli’s Communication Manager confirmed that the perennial back markers have redefined the terms of payment as have many other F1 teams as they struggle in difficult economic times. What could be more worrisome for the outfit is unexplained costs in connection with QPR boss Fernandes which were apparently swept “under the carpet” and were not used for the development of the project.

With the Japanese Grand Prix scheduled next, the thought of Kamui Kobayashi having to sit out the race would not have been popular with the Japanese fans. In the teams desperate search for funds – his seat has been offered to monied drivers in recent weeks. And whilst no source has been quoted it would not be a stretch of the imagination that an ex Dutch employee may have a bone to grind.


(sourced from (GMM) with TJ13 comment)

Vergne hopes 2015 employer noticed Singapore drive

Jean-Eric Vergne hopes his impressive drive in Singapore will open a rival team’s garage door for him in 2015. Dumped as a Red Bull-backed driver, the Frenchman will leave the energy drink company’s second team Toro Rosso at the end of the season, to be replaced by teenager Max Verstappen. Vergne, 24, has had a largely anonymous 2014 season alongside the impressive rookie Daniil Kvyat, but in Singapore he left all his regular rivals in the shade with a spectacular drive to sixth place.

The homepage at Faenza based Toro Rosso’s website still exclaims ‘Vergne Va Va Voom!” “Wow! What can we say?” the official report reads. “Jean-Eric Vergne delivered one of the best drives of his formula one career”. According to France’s Auto Hebdo, Vergne hopes Toro Rosso was not the only impressed F1 team on Sunday.

“When you have a good car, that’s when you need to show what you can do, and that’s what I did,” he said. “I think I showed my potential, I did everything I could. Let’s see if it can change things. I keep my fingers crossed for a cockpit for next year with a good team. I really hope so.

TJ13 comment: It is always derisory when a driver who is out of contract suddenly starts performing in an attempt to save his career. Where has the effort been all season? Of course it is simple to suggest that at a certain race he could have experienced problems but in general people form their opinions over the longer term.

When you have a good car, you are expected to perform well but the superstars perform well despite the car not because of it.


Hamilton worth the money

TJ13 reported following the summer break, that the negotiations between Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes AMG F1 were stalled due to the German parent company refusing to pay Lewis the same level of remuneration for any contract extension.

This of course is déjà vu for Lewis since Ron Dennis went public on TV in Canada 2012, stating Lewis would have to take a pay cut should he stay at McLaren.

Immediately following the race in Singapore, Lauda hailed Hamilton as “worth his money, I can tell you that,” when speaking to SKY.

Toto Wolff was also gushing over Hamilton’s performance, “That was really awesome….  These are the Lewis Hamilton days. These are the days when you recognise how great he is and it makes the difference between the superstars and the stars.”

Yet the debate which raged amongst fans in the comments section following a Sky written piece recording this – and across other forums and fan sites was not so conclusive.

T-Bone observed, “Someone please explain the difference between Vettel having the best car for the last 4 years and Lewis having the best car now. Lewis has done nothing great the last few years. He has had car’s that have not been very good, I’ll give you that but now has a great car and is winning again. Seem’s like the car to me. You could say Lewis and Nico are winning because they have the best car”.

It is worthy of note that despite the efforts of the chasing pack in this season’s development race, Mercedes appear to have consistently something in hand when it comes to race pace, between 1 and 3 seconds per lap.

So there we have it, the pro’s and con’s – awesome or expected?

Back to Lauda’s assertions. There is a tussle playing out inside Daimler Benz at present. The board members are of the view that the current payments to Hamilton are unnecessary. Nico Rosberg has proven that Lewis is not the one lap master in qualification many assumed he was, though of course Hamilton has 7 race wins to Rosberg’s 4.

Further, if as expected, Mercedes continue with a dominant car in 2015, then it is likely that a Mercedes driver will win the WDC and the German team again win the WCC.

Add to this the disastrous relationships developing within the AMG F1 team due to the animosity being spread by both drivers – which Stuttgart believe is damaging to their brand –  and it is hardly surprising the board of the Automotive company are open to Hamilton leaving the team before serving his full three year contract.

The device to enact this, offer Lewis a substantial pay cut for 2016, and give the impression ‘he is not appreciated’.

XIX predictably will do their thing, which by moving Lewis Hamilton from team to team delivers them an incremental ‘finder’s fee’ over and above the cash already rolling into their coffers.

Hey Presto, we have Lewis to Ferrari and Alonso to Mercedes.

Yet somehow Niki Lauda believes by shouting loudly what good value Lewis really is, will change the bean counters in Stuttgart’s mind.

It’s all rather silly….. isn’t it?

Worryingly for the next generation of F1 drivers, the fact that the cars are much easier to drive physically these days, will see the teams recruit young inexpensive drivers and not spend tens of millions on the Lewis and Fernando’s of this world. The cash will go into car development and not drivers, after all the car is around 80% of the performance and the driver just 20%.


Nothing like piling on the pressure eh Marko?

To be fair to the good doctor Marko, this is a lose/lose conversation. Though his decision to announce that a 16 year old kid will drive in a half decent F1 car in 2015 is the reason he is answering questions.

When asked by Formula1.com what he expected from Max Berstappen in 2015, Marko nigh on trumpets, “He is an exceptional talent that comes along only once in decades”.

A rather bold claim, one may suggest? As if this is not enough of a weight of expectation to place on the young lad’s shoulders, Marko continues when asked if Verstappen reminds him of anyone.

“Most likely Ayrton Senna. And in such a case you must not look at his age. He has been talking with people who are experts when it comes to the development of youngsters and they all say that (in terms of) his mind he is more like 22 than 16”.

Old before your time huh! Still many people are excited to see what the first test tube Formula 1 driver looks like behind the wheel.

Marko reveals, “we work with him intensively. He will do some Friday runs. Not long ago he did a 400 km test in Italy, he’s in the simulator whenever possible and he’s working on his physique and psychology with top experts. Yes, some things became visible that we will have to address for the 2015 season. Having said that, he is getting the perfect ‘schooling’ before he gets on the grid.”

And there we have it folks, the future of your F1 drivers. Professional from the age of 4, ready foir F1 by 16 years of age and retired by the ripe old age of 22.

What a strange day indeed. We’ve discovered both the next Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna all in one go. Lucky us.

Aldous Huxley, clearly knew a thing or two about the future back in the 1932.


115 responses to “#F1 Daily News and Comment: Wednesday, 24th September 2014

  1. How do you run an engine mode incorrectly?
    Mercedes claimed it was a wiring loom fault not a connector.
    In one or two race weekends ago, Rosberg was having issues with the learning of the gears, which may mean the fault could have been developing.
    I remember an anonymous source that once claimed Hamilton pressed the wron button and lost drive in 2007Brazil. It later turned out to be a fabrication.

    • Seems reasonable to me.
      Red Bull amongst others have had wiring loom failures too.

      Hard to find, and not quick to fix.

      • Isn’t that loom something that is life-cycled and replaced just like other parts? So the failure remains totally unexpected if team was following proper schedule. Maybe dude just got sloppy when he installed this loom. Too bad Merc not saying how frequently the loom is replaced actually.

        • They did, Toto stated that the loom hadn’t reached its life cycle as yet.

          During TK’s notebook segment after the race, he stated that during the teams pre race checks, they started the car and cycled through the gears and other controls and everything was fine. The damaged apparently occurred whilst Nico was getting into the car.

          • during the teams pre race checks, they started the car and cycled through the gears and other controls and everything was fine. The damaged apparently occurred whilst Nico was getting into the car.

            Not to be pedantic, Fortis, but the loom could’ve been damaged at any point after it was last installed and visually inspected…but only failed after/as Nico was getting into the car.

            So the loom could still be functioning properly after having sustained some initial physical damage (that would, nevertheless, inevitably have been fatal, once the compromise had occurred).

            But it could “pass” indirect performance test(s) in the garage, and only cause failure once it was subjected to actual sustained racing “load” (even if that load was only the driver getting into the car and turning the wheel, stressing the steering column and stretching the loom w/in it, one more half-turn than whatever the pre-race check turn#s was).

            I’m just being fussy & overscrupulous. I really liked your Enigma-machine comment, btw, in case you didn’t see my reply to it (on mattpt55s radio-special).

  2. Good morning Judge, hope you’re in good spirits after watching that penalty shootout lastnight 🙂

    How do think the GOAT Vale would’ve feared had he made the switch to F1 in 07?

    • The funny thing about Vale is that he doesn’t seem to be a Lewis fan. Vettel is great. Alonso is great. Ric is great. Bottas is great…oh,f and there’s Hamiltlon too…lol

    • He would have done well, given enough testing. And we saw how Hamilton entered with enough testing for 07! Vale was a karting champion before moving to bikes, so he could make a career of racing.. how many Italian drivers do we have on the grid today?

      • PS. And slowly…. more of the stories revealed are coming true. It was already claimed that Rossi and Schumi was one side, Raikkonen and Massa the other…

  3. We have Vettel to Ferrari or McLaren, Hamilton to Ferrari, Alonso to McLaren or Mercedes, but I never heard Vettel to Mercedes rumors. Why is that? He’s German, wouldn’t Mercedes want an all-german team? But if they want to build “global” image, Hamilton is the right guy.

  4. What I find remarkable about the news about Schumacher Jr. is that he isn’t compared to Max Verstappen. Schumacher Jr. is talented but nowhere near as dominant in karting as Max Verstappen was. Max had not only won the European championship (2 different European championships in the same year) but also the world championship and a couple of national championships… it’s going to be very difficult to emulate that even if his surname is Schumacher 😉

    • The thing is though – karting success is not an automatic win in the big league. Suzie Wolff was very good in her karting days, while Schumacher and Vettel were rather modestly successful. Cyndie Allemann of Switzerland creamed the lot in karting. She never made it past Indy Lights,

      • Good points and I agree with your view Fat Hippo. I believe the Verstappen’s also agree with that view because Verstappen Sr. refused to sign his son up for one of the F1 development teams as long as Max was racing karts because he knew that being good in karting does not always translate to being fast in cars (Max his mother, Sophie Kumpen, knows a thing or two about that too ;-)).

        Let me put it this way I would have loved to see if the article dedicated an alinea to show Schumacher Jr’s performance in perspective of his competitors but also last year’s kart graduate and that of current F1 drivers when they graduated from karting. Now it seems to me that the article was mainly written from the point of view to appease the many Schumacher fans and not so much to show TheJudge13 readers how good he really is 😉 (I’m missing some well known reference points :-D)

      • True, but it has to be said, I imagine physique came into it. Lightness helps in karts, but as the cars get more demanding, thus the more you need strength. Schumacher’s fitness came to the fore in his F1 longevity.

        I found Junior’s competitors more interesting TBH – Enaam Ahmed won, Jehan Daruvala led, and the Belgian charged straight onto Ahmed’s tail before retiring. The Brits (Joyner pinched the WKC off Verstappen at a ‘2nd race’, months after the first – honestly, they make it impossible for someone casual to follow or get interested) went backwards from the front row.

        I’d rather see how Ahmed and Daruvala get on, with Daruvala being Force India’s junior driver after ‘one from a billion’. Arjun Maini, the actual winner, is leading BRDC F4 in Britain, while his brother was near the front in that video mentioned and Daruvala was a British champion in his first year karting in the UK. Reddy is being dominated by the 3rd generation Fittipaldi in Protyre Formula Renault…

  5. “Nico Rosberg has proven that Lewis is not the one lap master in qualification many assumed he was, though of course Hamilton has 7 race wins to Rosberg’s 4”

    OR Nico Rosberg is a one lap master himself aswell. Mercedes simply underestimated Rosbergs speed, just like most of us I reckon. In hindsight I really admire how MSC as a 42 y/o performed in 2012, especially in wet conditions. Hamiltons not overpaid, Rosbergs underpaid by current standards.

    • Well, let’s have some sense of realism when it comes to qualifying.
      Rosberg has managed 7 poles vs 6 poles for Lewis and is currently outqualifying Lewis by 8-6. HOWEVER, if we take into account the Monaco parking incident and the reliability issues for Lewis in Ger and Hun, then the score could have easily been 9-5 for Lewis and 9-4 in poles.
      Rosberg is not slouch of course, he’s as good as Vettel in my book, but I wouldn’t go as far as saying that he’s as good as Lewis, in either race-craft or qualifying.

      • “Rosberg has managed 7 poles vs 6 poles for Lewis and is currently outqualifying Lewis by 8-6. HOWEVER, if we take into account the Monaco parking incident and the reliability issues for Lewis in Ger and Hun, then the score could have easily been 9-5 for Lewis and 9-4 in poles.”

        well, “bean counters”, as the article calls them, do like to confuse charts with reality and take decisions accordingly, only to discover later on that they made a mistake.

        mclaren were the last team thinking lewis was overpaid and look at them now. they would give an arm and a leg for a driver capable of masking how crap their car is and are now trying to throw money at alonso because honda wants a star driver.

        i think letting lewis go would be a big mistake for mercedes, and replacing him with alonso would be an even bigger one.

      • Nico 11 pole positions to date, 32nd all time; Seb 45 pole positions, 3rd all time. And Nico came into F1 earlier. I respectfully disagree that these two drivers are equivalent qualifiers.

        • This is the first time Rosberg ever had a champonship worthy car in his F1 career. Vettel had 5 (yes, 2009 aswell).

          • 2009 a championship car? Not quite.

            About mid way to the end, it was on par with the Brawn at some places. The only reason Vettel got a sniff was that Button screwed part two of 2009 big time. The Brawn itself was still top shelf. Barrichello showed that the Brawn was still a race winner and pole sitter (even at the finale in Brazil getting pole) and was as quick or quicker than the improved RBR in part two of 2009.

            Seb didn’t have a title car in 2009. Button near lost an unloseable championship in a car that was the very best, period, for part one of the season and equal best for part two.

          • @SiS, and yet you consider 2010 and 2012 as championship challenging cars for Hamilton?!? I believe Vettel himself has said that Vettel circa 2013 might well have won in 2009 in the RB5. He made a lot of mistakes that year which cost him huge. He finished only 11 pts behind.

            Even just take out his mistake in the first race, where he pushed the boundaries of defensive driving, and lost out on a certain 3rd place. It also meant he got a 10-place grid drop for Malaysia, which meant he started 13th. He then proceeded to spin out of that race. If he held 3rd in both races, that would be an extra 9 pts. Vettel then binned his car in Monaco while running 4th (5 pts) … and there’s your points deficit made up.

            That’s before we even get to his mistakes in Singapore, Hungary, and Brazil that year.

            2009 RB5 was definitely a title-challenging car.

          • @KRB

            ” I believe Vettel himself has said that Vettel circa 2013 might well have won in 2009 in the RB5.”

            I’d love to see any quotes from SV where he said that, with particular mention to the quality of the RB5 bring the key and not a subtle inference that Jenson is cracking.

            “He made a lot of mistakes that year which cost him huge. He finished only 11 pts behind.”

            That he did, but not as many as Button. 11 pts is over 25 pts in our system. Yes he got close, but again that speaks to Button not extracting the best from the best car in part 2 of 2009 whilst Barrichello was.

          • SIS… 2009 simply came too early for Vettel. 2011-13 Vettel would have wrapped that one up probably before the last race, as shown above by KRB. The stats back me up – my perception was slightly more towards yours (and the general populations) before I saw them.

            No doubting that Hamilton and Raikkonen were the fastest drivers that year, either, while Alonso was lugging around a brick, as shown by Grosjean’s debut. In the second half of the year, Hamilton scored the most points, followed by Kimi. Button and Vettel were still 3 tenths off their pace, Rubens and Webber 4, but the cars they drove over the season masked that disadvantage.

          • Below is from 2009 … but there were others at the tail end of last year, after Vettel won his 4th title, where he said it could’ve been five. I will keep looking …


            11 pts … I showed you how in 3 races he could’ve made that up. That’s before factoring in the lost points from HUN, TUR, SIN, and BRA.

            Please can you list the mistakes that Button made that year? It’s silly to suggest he made more than Vettel that year. He drove well enough to impress Whitmarsh to bring him into McLaren.

            I also totally forgot about Seb’s Turkey mistake that year as well … that was a bad one, which gifted Jenson the lead and the win.


            Alonso in that RB5 likely would’ve won the title.

    • Good comment Alex. +1

      Rosberg is far quicker over a lap than many, including I, thought.

      Additionally perhaps that whole, “Lewis is the one lap master” rep was also slowly built on the back of having Kovalainen and Button as team mates. Also, in 2007 Fernando was less than comfortable and there was much going on, so maybe it’s worth disregarding that years team mate comparison a little.

      Lewis is now facing, maybe for the first time, someone with pure one lap speed and as the article says, the “one lap master” rep is diminished either way.

      • ….and Canada was called by all the pro’s in advance as a Lewis track – as was Singapore. Rosberg had pole in Montreal and was 0.007s slower in Singapore. He seems pretty good over 1 lap.

          • Nico Rosberg is no slouch as a driver. He’s won a WC at the “Triple A” level (U.S. baseball reference) of the best 4-wheel driving sport ever created. However, like every modern driver, he’s had to grow from being an inconsistent speed first driver to a thinking driver (and NO he does not have a degree in engineering(! an F1 media, “let’s fabricate our boys’ worldliness,” myth), as if possessing a degree and thinking equate). However, Rosberg carries the scars of his racing past and must put those aside if he is come to fruition as a driver.

            Lewis Hamilton? Sadly, once again, no mark that, As Usual, we have the opinion of F1 fans and sporting “never weres” believing their opinions trump the perceptions of the true and only experts – F1 drivers. Lets’ see, we have Fernando Alonso’s sober comments about Lewis Hamilton’s driving ability. And they weren’t post-race or in the midst of a season as teammates. They were made after years of on and off-track experiences with Hamilton.

            Now, we have the words of Jenson Button, who utterly flummoxed a – SkyF1 interviewer – I’ve forgotten which SkyF!/Rupert Murdoch lackey. When asked about Hamilton’s driving from the perspective of a former teammate and now, long-time foe, Button said Hamilton “might be the fastest driver [to] EVER” sit in an F1 cockpit.

            And it’s no mean feat (some say, “small” feat, but “mean” is used to distinguish a feat from the “average”) to get Button to elicit such a response about ANY of his competitors. But hey, what does Jenson know? He only watched the guy every day for three years while driving the same car.

            Now anyone who says, “well, of course Button will say that, he’s British,” is obviously obfuscating the issue here. An honest, sober and truly interested watcher of F1 will know that Button, even in the worst of moments, like post-race Sunday, is ever the English diplomat. In fact, he’s openly pined for fellow Englishman Hamilton to with the WC this season, “since I can’t.” But Jenson’s also the same person who, earlier this season, openly threw salt in what he perceived to be an open Hamilton wound when pronouncing, with that quintessential and cheeky English glint in his eye, that Hamilton was emotionally shaken after his most recent spate of bad luck.

            Postscript: Please arrow sling as you wish. Awhile back I stopped checking for replies. By now I know who’s who and have a pretty decent idea about what it is you are actually thinking whenever “Lewis Hamilton” and “positive comment about Hamilton” are conjoined here.

          • ‘Tis truly a rare and exquisite largesse when I, somehow, manage to drag out the illustrious and magnificent dwil to school me on some Hamilfosi certitudes… You do the TJ13 community a grand honour by dismantling the twisted truths of my obscurantism on our favoured discussion point, Hollywood Hamilton. Your perspicacity is of Rasputin-esque proportions. Thank you for bearing the heavy responsibility as “bearer of the truth”.

            dwil, in truth I have no verbal response. I am not at your esteemed level. However, it is said a picture is worth a thousand words…



          • That’s a grotesque facebook. Social media at its worst IMHO.

            During the LH/SV debate that many partook in, with me stating Lewis got smashed in 2011, which he did, doesn’t qualify me or that comment for what is on that site.

            I know it’s difficult to lose an argument, especially when there is no way around the facts, but it won’t be that easy to put me in that draw and make yourself feel better.

            In 2011, Hollywood went AWOL. If I could be bothered, I am sure he has alluded to that himself, also suggesting his jealousy/admiration of Button’s bubble underpinning his strong season.

            In truth, it’s unlikely Button did have a strong, one off season…

          • That’s the second comment you’ve made to me today where I’ve felt near overpowered by the miasma of irony.

            1: Reasoned and logical responses.
            2: Letting go of a Lewis obsession.

            A lot of pigs are flying overhead today it seems. Seems self awareness is in short supply around your neck of the woods.

          • In 2011, Hollywood went AWOL.

            Yes – and? Relevance?

            Hammy is still to be regarded as more talented, more adored, more admired and more respected by his fans and colleagues. Oh, and more fast, too.


            –Team Lewis

          • @Joe Papp


            Is that really not clear? The whole string of comments, read in toto, would provide the context and therefore relevance.

            As to the rest of the comment, well maybe that’s how he’s considered in the USA. Don’t know about it being a universal view. Either way, what’s the relevance of that last snippet outside of it being “feel good”?

          • We’ve been so very busy comparing HAM to Rosberg that we have totally forgotten to compare Hamilton’s accomplishments to Still I surprise…

            One is a millionaire. One is a world class athlete. One is one of the 3 fastest drivers in the world. One is a world champion.

            The other one?

          • @J

            “The other one?”

            He’s not much really, but seeing as you asked, he just a multi (that means more than one J) millionaire, was an athlete (and winner) at national level in two sports a long time ago and now, for fun, is the head master of the Hamilfosi school of punishment, schooling these youngsters daily.

            What about you mate?

          • Which two sports? Sounds interesting. Also, being as rich as Hamilton would be quite an achievement, too.

            To back up dwil, Hamilton is one of the 16 ‘fastest drivers’ comparatively per season ever, with 2010 Button and 2012 Rosberg in the third group from 25-38 (+0.2).

            The only non-title winners in the ‘top tier’ are Moss (a quirk) and Gilles Villeneuve from 1981. The ‘top 4’ are in – Raikkonen and Alonso from 2005, and Hamilton 2008/Vettel 2011.

            The non-winners from 17-24 (+0.1) are Berger 1989, Reutemann 1978 and the 2004 Williams pair. Berger got stuck behind Senna, after matching Mansell, while in 2003 the Williams drivers took points off each other, with Montoya their best chance for the title, IMO. Reutemann was ‘sabotaged’ from winning the title, after disobeying Williams team orders to let Jones win.

            In the top 38… only Castellotti 1957 and Amon 1970 haven’t won a race. So indeed they are the unluckiest drivers not to win, with Amon’s bad luck striking many times when he was almost at the chequer. At least Alesi’s Ferrari held out that one time!

          • “Which two sports? Sounds interesting.”

            Racing/winning at National F3 level is one. The other would triangulate my position… 🙂

            “Also, being as rich as Hamilton would be quite an achievement, too.”

            No, no… I doubt that greatly. Not even close, but seeing as J asked, I thought I’d share. Though, I am more than happy doing nothing but my hobbies for the rest of… I’ll leave it there.

            I find discourse about ones finances / successes quite uncouth, frankly, so @J – there’s your answer and I await your response.

          • Fair enough, I didn’t think it would be that distinctive, but there is a knowledgeable crowd here. On money, I guess having enough to do what you want is all you need! Being able to do hobbies for the rest of time = perfect situation.

            ‘As rich as Hamilton’ was a bit tongue in cheek :), on the money scale, we’re more likely to be pay drivers or some of the less well off F1 drivers, heh. Has Hulk received all he is due yet? I doubt it..

          • For Button on Hamilton – how long has Lewis been at his best? The best can manage about 5 (Prost 85-89), or 6 (Senna 86-91, Schumacher 96-01) seasons at the ultimate pace. Moss and Clark also managed 6 seasons, along with Chiron pre-war.

            Vettel – 11-13. 3 seasons at the peak, still puts him inside the top 15 quite easily. Gilles only got 1 peak season. Lewis…. 08-12 for sure.. that’s at least 5. So, he’s getting into pretty lofty company about now…

            Patrick O’Brien also said in mid-2011, on how much the car matters, that Alonso, Hamilton, and probably Rosberg could have won 2011 (beating Button) with the Red Bull. That shows that Rosberg has always been rated, if you knew how to see ‘past the car’.

            IMO, he’s been good since 2007, and was wise to turn down the number 2 McLaren seat for 2008. PoB has him at 16-25 form at mid-2011 (only one tenth off the top 3, while Massa and Schumi were 4 off. Schumi’s 2012 was when he really had the pace to compete, hence his Monaco pole lap).

      • “disregard 2007 because Alonso wasn’t comfortable and there was a lot going on”, but later you’re making referene to 2011 as being the year Lewis got smashed by Jenson…..

        So why disregard that year as well, after all Lewis wasn’t comfortable and had a lot going on as well…..

        so why is one more relevant than the other?i


        Pole is pole, irrespective of the gap

        • Well Fortis, the reason it’s different is because 2007 may have been the team and Ron hampering Alonso, thus giving a false read on the results, where as in 2011 it was Lewis, despite all the team support, epically under performing and going AWOL.


          Therefore Button, not being considered “great”, destroying Hollywood suggests the McLaren 2011 car didn’t get it’s due while Vettel was laughing all the way to the bank.

          • Fortis – His assessments of Hamilton are always fabrications backed with twists of logic and fact. It’s baldly apparent that he couldn’t be honest about Lewis Hamilton – same with Senna – if a gun was put to his head.

          • So let me get this straight…
            In 2007 Hollywood matched Fred, considered by most as the best. In 2008 Hollywood “lucked into” a championship, against the fairly well regarded (by some) Felipe Baby. Then in 2011 he got “smashed” by the distinctly average (apparently) champion Button. So it’s been steadily downhill right?
            In which case how crap does that make Rosberg? 🙂

        • ….. indeed, but not so dominant huh?….

          ‘pole is pole’ – as is being beaten on points by Jenson over 3 years. ‘Beaten is beaten’, irrespective of the reasons.

          Not my preferred line of reasoning, but we need to be on the same page (winky smile, with understanding look)

          • I think we can all agree that Lewis is the superior driver, possessed of greater talent, keener instinct, a warmer heart and more profound sense of loss, emptiness, perpetual victimization – and desire.

            That Hamilton sometimes in the past failed to most-effectively utilize his skillset and faced crushing disappointment after being let-down by his team, cheated by his rival(s), and betrayed by Life itself only makes him more heroic and lovable. And marketable.

            –Team Lewis!

          • What’s the trophy called that they give out, for best points total over a span of three seasons?

            If the DWC was just decided between Jenson and Lewis in their time as teammates, then it’d be 2-1 for Lewis.

            Nico is quick, no doubt. I might even say that he’s the quickest teammate (over one lap) that Lewis has had … it’d be close between Nico and Alonso.

            Nico did have to go out again in Q2 in Singapore, to be safe, on a push-but-not-so-hard lap, whereas HAM, ALO, RAI, and RIC stayed in the pits (while BOT, VET, and MAS pitted instead of doing a hot lap). He also went straight on again, at turn 8, in Q1.

            Hmm …

          • ….Also you could consider Hamilton was never as good as Button because he managed a best of 4th place in the WDC during their 3 years together. Jenson was 2nd in 2011.

            ….round and round we go….

            Hamilton’s time at McLaren looks from the stats as one of immense promise, which in actuality was very disappointing….

            3 long years….

          • @judge13: Button’s best 2nd, Lewis 4th. Yeah, that was a close 2nd, wasn’t it? The title was in the balance. Pfft.

            Lewis was the only one of them that was still in the title hunt at the last round, however remote. In their time together, there was NEVER any talk of Lewis supporting Button’s title bid (b/c there was never any title bid), but twice Button was subjected to the “do you help Lewis out?” talk, in both 2010 and 2012.

            That says it all.

  6. …and I repeat, why would Merc want Alonso? Unless they tell Rosberg from now on you’ll be a compliant no 2, Fred will create factions as he did at McLaren. And how well would his latin/mediterranean temperament gel with his bosses teutonic one? Vettel would be a better fit for Merc and Stutgart seeing him not throwing too many toys out of his pram this season, they’ll believe that he could work well with Rosberg.

    The only swaps that would make sense for 2016 (not next year) are:

    Vettel to Merc
    Alonso to McLaren (or staying at Ferrari)
    Hamilton to Ferrari (or back to Macca)

    • Unless he brings a lot of money with him ?
      (nb getting him out of Ferrari might cost 30m, allegedly.)

      Would certainly be interesting having four managers in the team rather than the current three…

    • Rosberg is the one that will affect things here. Alonso will never go to a team playing the equal status role, we all know how 2007 went. So if he were to go to Mercedes, he’ll want absolute supremacy. Would Rosberg even accept that ? No, well, if he is serious about winning himself, which I think he has shown pretty clearly this season.

  7. Re: Ferrari ‘gas’.
    Interesting development indeed. Great that it will reduce wear on the components, but does anyone have any ideas regarding how this might affect fuel density or fuel efficiency? Also, given that the fuel has to be mostly identical to forecourt petrol, does this fuel comply with the rules (I assume so, but how, if it’s formulated from a different base product)?

    • It’s really far into chemistry this. Basically fuel is nothing else but booze. You need alcanoles and natural gas is mainly made up of Methane, from which it is a short step to Methanol and Ethanol. Basically most of the substances in Petrol are organic and consist of Carbon, Oxygen and Hydrogen, you just have to re-arrange the atoms properly. And both oil and natural gas are mainly comprised of organic substances, but natural gas has less ‘problematic’ ingredients, hence the smaller environmental footprint. The end-product is more or less the same, with the fuel synthesized from natural gas being probably a whole lot more expensive, but also purer.

      • @ Fat Hippo. It’s not that simple:

        19.4 Composition of the fuel:
        19.4.1 The composition of the petrol must comply with the specifications detailed below:
        Component Units Min Max Test Method
        Aromatics wt% 40* GCMS
        Olefins wt% 17* GCMS
        Total di-olefins wt% 1.0 GCMS
        Total styrene &
        alkyl derivatives wt% 1.0 GCMS

        Further, the minimum octane rating (RON+MIN)/2) is 87, with no maximum; some compounds really help with suppressing pre-ignition, which is critical with the high compression ratios possible with a turbo charged engine. Back in the previous turbo era the magic ingredient was toluene, which allowed amazing boost without detonation.

        I won’t to into the organic chemistry here, but there are lots of straight and branch chain molecules involved here, as well as oxygen and nitrogen compounds, etc. Very complex stuff and I very seriously doubt they are building this from scratch from methane, CH4, a single carbon atom and four hydrogen atoms.

        • Sorry, thejpage destroyed my nicely laid out percentage columns. Put some spaces in there and it should be understandble i.e.

          Compound units max test

          Aromatics wt% 40 GCMS

        • And thanks to you, too, Gomer. It hurt my brain more than the Hippo’s response, but I think I got there in the end!

          • All very interesting replies and stuff, but Shell made oil from natural gas, not petrol.
            As alluded to by FH, the advantage is in the purity of the base.
            Crude oil is a horrible mixture of all sorts of compounds. Processed NG is 80% methane plus a tapering list of of other alkanes.
            Personally I’m not convinced the new oil presents any performance advantage over the synthetic oil Ferrari would have run previously – apart from giving Shell an opportunity to tell a story.
            Generally oils is oils. If it meets the appropriate spec it’s fit for purpose, regardless of how much you pay for it 🙂

  8. Lewis record in F1 speak for it self in volumes.the Only driver to take a pole and a win every year in f1.What separates Lewis from the mediocrity of Vetel and Buttons,is that every year irrespective of his car you can find a JAW dropping performance.
    Mclaren and Ron Dennis thought they were too Big for Lewis and tried to humiliate him with a pay cut…he left them with the fastest car… they imploded and crumbled without his leadership .With the Lewis magic and star dom gone sponsors jump the sinking ship…even media boy Button look broken and vaunted

    Merc too better beware,while they enjoy the Lewis effect…if not we will take the magic to Ferrari.

    • “Lewis record in F1 speak for it self in volumes.the Only driver to take a pole and a win every year in f1.What separates Lewis from the mediocrity of Vetel and Buttons,is that every year irrespective of his car you can find a JAW dropping performance.”

      Lewis is also the only driver in F1 never to have run in anything but a top team. Try again…

        • Alonso qualified Minardi’s in 15th. Vettel won in a bloody Toro Rosso. Lewis is hardly the biggest driver we’ve ever seen. He never had to make his stand in a midfield car.

          • But which is the bigger challenge, make your stand in a midfield car, where much is not expected of you or being placed in a race winning car from the get go against Alonso?

            Thats a combination that could instantly ruine a drivers career even before it started.

          • “Alonso qualified Minardi’s in 15th. Vettel won in a bloody Toro Rosso. Lewis is hardly the biggest driver we’ve ever seen. He never had to make his stand in a midfield car.”

            you always argue that vettel won in a torro rosso hippo, but conveniantly fail to mention that in 2008, the torro rosso chassis was developed by red bull and had the additional advantage of a ferrari engine, which was better than the renault engine at the time. so in essence, vettel won all his races in newey designed red bull cars.

            at least lewis delivered every year he raced at a top team. let’s see if we can say the same thing about vettel at the end of 2014…

          • “Erm, if you count being smashed by Button in 2011 “delivering”, then LOL. Hardly the most epic of drivers as well.”


            smashed is an exageration. button managed to marginally beat hamilton in his worst season. if you want to see smashed while racing at a top team, i suggest looking at vettels 2014 record…

          • @SiS, Singapore was only the 2nd time this season that Vettel has finished ahead of Ricciardo, when both have finished. It’s 8-2 for Ricciardo on that score.

            In 2011, on that same score, it ended up 7-7 between Button and Hamilton. They also ended up tied on wins (3-3) and fastest laps (3-3). Where Button smashed Lewis was on podiums (12-6) and laps raced (96.65% vs 89.41%). Lewis actually had more lead laps than Button in 2011. Plus of course Lewis scored the only non-RBR pole of 2011, and had 8 front rows (joint 2nd with WEB) to 3 for BUT.

            Kudos to Button for 2011, it was his best year of driving, imo. There was no title pressure, of course (VET walkover), but he put the results in, no doubt about it.

            In 2014, it’s 3-0 RIC in wins, 7-3 in podiums, 72-1 in laps led. So please, what adjective would you use to describe what RIC is doing to VET this year?

          • @KRB

            “So please, what adjective would you use to describe what RIC is doing to VET this year?”

            Well KRB, It would seem, certainly overall, that ‘totally destroyed’ wouldn’t be a an over statement. The key is, why. Vet / Ric is the most intriguing of all comparisons this year, to me at least.

            Not sure the point though…

        • Yet you have to understand when they destroyed vettel for having the best car the same argument must be used now for hamilton (and rosberg) finishing lower than first is just not good enough. Finishing first with 20+ sec is because the second just could not keep up with the mercedes pace. Or else explain me why it’s right to monitor vettels race with that parameter. But it’s not right to say it about any of the mercedes boys? Nobody is stating that lewis is a bad driver. It’s just that we don’t believe he’s doing miracles, like some of the fan boys do…

      • But does that not go further to highlight his pedigree of how good he is? I mean, Seb, Alonso, Kimi and Nico all had to serve their apprenticeships in smaller teams (that is if we can call Williams and Torro Rosso at that time, small teams) Lewis was chucked in at the deepend against a double WDC and held his own. Do you think the other 4 drivers i named, would’ve been able to do the same? So clearly there was something really special about him

          • You don’t think that’s a good argument? Do you think that Seb or Nico could’ve handled going up against Alonso in their first year? Could Alonso or Kimi have handled going up against Schumacher in their first year?

            Vettel went up against Liuzzi in the 2nd half of 2007, and LIU was ahead 2-1 in two-car finishes. Rosberg had a pretty poor first season against Webber. Kimi was beaten by Heidfeld at Sauber in 2001, the same year that Alonso was beaten by Tarso Marques at Minardi (on countback, two P9’s vs one P10).

            In my math, (LIU c.2007 + WEB c.2006) < ALO c.2007

            … likewise (HEI c.2001 + MAR c.2001) < MSC c.2001

            Some seem to view Hamilton's race seat at McLaren as some sort of charitable gift. McLaren ain't no charity … they knew perfectly well what they were doing in handing the race seat to Hamilton.

          • @SiS, yeah, so Ron just signed Alonso in 2005, when he was *just* a 1x DWC, he entered the team as the reigning 2x DWC, McLaren mechanics were all clamouring to work on his side of the garage … and then they decide to sabatoge him and pump up a rookie?!??? It’s so stupid that it’s laughable.

            Alonso is a paranoid freak, he couldn’t believe that this rookie (however heralded) had come in, and was giving him a seriously hard time.

            At the end of the season, after Japan, McLaren SHOULD HAVE put all their efforts behind Lewis. With any other driver on the other side, they likely would’ve. It cost them bigtime.

      • Touche…..point taken,but the prevailing F1 establishment veiw at the time was Merc was a midfeild team when he came in….and voila..they became a top team,and suddenly Macca in the dumps.Certainly F1 is a team sport,but much like a new ceo can change the fortune of a company,so has Lewis change not just the fortune of Merc but their entire image.
        he gave them a macho posture, a new age gravitas and relevance that very few personality can bring.
        Have you seen how flambouyant Merc has become,from their race suits being more eye catching to the levery more bling shall I say.

        compare that to Macca since Lewis left.their car look dull,they have no gravitas apart from their illustrious history.no one listens to them,Button sounds nasal and whinny……..

        Yea they missing the Lew FACTOR.

      • Well you haven’t moved on have you SISsy girl as you are commenting about it…. cue standard toddler response

          • I wondered when someone would pick up on that…. Anyway, even saying SISsy girl is nothing compared to the responses he comes out at times 🙂

          • Lol – it honestly and sincerely amuses me as it actually says more about you, and what would upset you, than it does about me. Frankly, I
            it’d be my genuine preference for you to continue… 😀


            Oh I almost forgot, maybe you and your cretinous compatriot can click through on my name to see a piece inspired by, and dedicated to, your fellow Hamilfosi, if you have the fortitude that is.

            Enjoy… And do have a marvellous day.


  9. Re: OTD Lite
    Good piece. Makes me think that for all of the talk of Schumacher damaging his legacy by returning to F1, Todt is doing a far better job of destroying his own legacy by his consistently ineffectual leadership of the FIA. Shame. I had great expectations of him when he replaced Max Mosely but, unfortunately, rather than ‘breath of fresh air’ he’s more ‘don’t hold your breath’.

  10. Did T-Bone watch the 09 season? That’s the difference between Seb and Lewis. He was given a dog of a car to defend his championship with, but still finished the season with 2 wins (which could’ve been more, retired from the lead in Abu Dhabi) and 4 poles.

    • Yeh, because the car improved rapidly once they got the double diffuser on it.
      Doesn’t really strengthen your argument using that comment about 2009 to be honest

      • So how many wins did Heikki get with the improved McLaren? Poles? Podiums? Zero, zero, and zero.

        Meanwhile, Lewis got 2 wins (could’ve been 4, EUR and ABU), 4 poles (T-1st), and 5 podiums.

        He also led for 182 laps that year, 3rd most, ahead of both Rubens and Webber in better cars. How many for Heikki you ask? 2.

        Hope that doesn’t weaken the point.

  11. “XIX predictably will do their thing, which by moving Lewis Hamilton from team to team delivers them an incremental ‘finder’s fee’ over and above the cash already rolling into their coffers.”….

    I thought XIX worked for Lewis and not the other way round?

    “Nico Rosberg has proven that Lewis is not the one lap master in qualification many assumed he was, though of course Hamilton has 7 race wins to Rosberg’s 4″…..

    So what exactly are they paying him for, to get poles or to win races?

    Let’s add this into the mix, he has yet to lose a race when he has started on pole this season.

    • XIX tries to get the maximum of marketing potential out of Lewis. A Ferrari driver has the most sponsor potential, so XIX would love Lewis to move there. Even better would be that Lewis marries Nicole and applies for a US passport. I’d guess Lewis could get much better sponsor deals that way.

  12. We will publish this as an article in it’s own right over the next 24 hours

    Thank you SIS

    You could write these up each week if you like along with rate the race

    John M has last years comparatives

  13. So drivers like Alonso and especially Lewis bring nothing to the team beyond performance? whilst doing the research for this particular article, real research, not the taping into the Hamilton generalisation and ignorance bible, did you consider that Merc are if F1 to sell cars? and if so did you proceed to work out that the marketing aspect of the 2 drivers may come into the pay equation? Now if you had really stretched the boat out as far as a well researched not reactive or salacious appeal to the lowest common denominator reader of your ‘increasingly not as good as it promised’ titillation site, then you may even have come across some stats regarding the global sales, marketing reach, social media footprint since Mercedes paid the market rate (matcheable by mcLaren remember that do you tootsie?) – but what good does any research do if it interferes with a shallow and clever sounding but hollow piece that will be lapped up by the increasing majority of the readers here who enjoy a good bash??

    Good stuff, keep it up

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