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Previously on TheJudge13:
On This Day in #F1: 27th May 2006
#F1 Forensics:Mercedes seemingly has no opponents
Monaco mind games good for Rosberg – GMM
Verstappen says F1 world ‘talking about’ son Max (GMM)
Jordan tells friend Sauber to sell F1 team (GMM)
Lewis, master strategist or not?
Monaco must must change or die
Nico Rosberg uninjured in tragic accident with bystanders
The Sound of Formula One 2014
On numerous occasions TJ13 has reported that the sound of the new 2014 car are much better in person and that broadcasters need to look at the way they transmit the sound. Although the UK feed has improved significantly there is still much to do however the sound coming from these cars can be made to sound impressive, with nice graphics as well.
Monaco mind games good for Rosberg
Monaco was a victory for Nico Rosberg not only on the track, but also in the mind. That is the view of Felipe Massa, who in 2008 only just lost the battle to Hamilton when the Briton won his sole title.
“He’s a guy who needs to be perfect on the psychological side,” Brazilian Massa is quoted by Totalrace, “otherwise there is the chance of him making mistakes.
“He lost in 2007 because he lost the car in China, also in Brazil. It was his mistakes,” the former Ferrari driver explained.
So Massa thinks Hamilton’s reaction to the events in Monaco, where he missed the chance at pole position due to Rosberg’s controversial mistake, is a big victory for the German. “If Rosberg did that on purpose then that is not something that is part of my mentality,” said Massa.
“But without a doubt it is something that could hurt Hamilton on the psychological side and end up being good for Rosberg.”
However, Hamilton’s previous F1 teammate, Jenson Button, doubts Rosberg will get the mental upper hand that easily. He recalls beating the sister McLaren in the past, prompting Hamilton to be “quite outspoken and emotional” immediately afterwards.
“And the next race he would destroy me,” Button said. “He would arrive at the next race very quiet and then go and blitz it. He will do the same in Canada.The mind games people play on him will not work.”
Qualifying aside, there were plenty of ‘mind games’ at play in Monaco. Hamilton made his foul mood with Rosberg clear by complaining about the noise outside his quarters by the German’s kicking of a football with his trainer Daniel.
And the 2008 world champion initially refused to appear for the post-race Mercedes victory photo, until it was reportedly made clear to him that his snub was also against the waiting Daimler chairman Dieter Zetsche.
“Perhaps he was in the toilet,” joked Sport Bild correspondent Bianca Garloff, referring to Hamilton’s excuse for not attending a post-qualifying team briefing. And Hamilton also did not attend Thursday’s pre-practice briefing, telling reporters he “overslept“.
Rosberg is also guilty, reportedly not inviting Hamilton to his forthcoming wedding, and after the Spanish grand prix reacting furiously when it emerged that Hamilton had won by using a forbidden engine setting.
“On the Sunday in Barcelona we had some emotions from the other side; Nico felt aggrieved by what had happened, which is understandable,” said team boss Toto Wolff.
It is understood that Hamilton and Rosberg have been told, and will be told again, that if their rivalry spins out of control, Mercedes may have to resort to ‘team orders’. The big ‘no-no’ is a crash.
“And the one who is to blame will have big trouble from the top management of Mercedes,” team chairman Niki Lauda told Germany’s Bild newspaper. “We must be careful that it doesn’t get out of control.”
But in the wake of the Monaco trouble, the driver duo insists they remain in control. “I am sure when we turn up in the next place (Canada) we will be as professional as ever,” said Hamilton.
And Rosberg added: “There is a psychological battle now, but there always has been since we were 13.
“His attitude over the weekend did not surprise me. It is hard to be amazed by someone you’ve known for that long. We had some very difficult times in karting and things always calmed down and we moved forward.”
Those with short memories
As the debate continued to boil over about Formula One’s favourite topic of recent times, it seemed many had forgotten events of such a short time ago.
Those with short memories skipped over many facts in the Hamilton vs Rosberg debate. Malaysia 2013 was dominated by the call of Multi 21 and how Sebastian Vettel had “robbed” his Australian teammate of a victory in what turned out to be his final season. Following the revelation that Nico had done similar in Bahrain, then Hamilton copying that in Spain, many jumped to this situation we had seen in the past.
Of course the saying goes “let bygones lay to rest”, as the facts of this incident are long gone and have little effect on the present. However, in that race Vettel was repeatedly told by his engineer Rocky to conserve in the early stages as he would get the chance to fight for the lead later in the race. When the call came to stop challenging Mark Webber, those on Vettel’s side of the garage must have been confused beyond belief.
Either it was a charade from those on the Red Bull prat perch or they genuinely thought they would be able to control their driver to the point he would give up on the race win. At least in this situation they were facing stiff competition from other areas on the field.
Furthermore, that day there was another team order that was given. The words “Negative Nico” must have haunted Rosberg for many nights after that fateful day as he said “Remember this one” the race. Although, I divulge from the topic in hand.
The Red Bulls faced competition from a range of other cars at the start of 2013. 2014 has been a completely different story as the Mercedes GP cars have sailed away from the rest of the field in each race. It begs the question then of what is all the kerfuffle about if they do use “illegal” engine mapping settings?
Why do Mercedes GP not just let the two push their cars to the limits? It would keep each happy and give a great show to see who could get the most out of the car. It would also keep both drivers happy as they would be without limits on their car performance and would have no suspicions as to whether their teammate was cheating them. Finally, as the teams are having to pay per point they score, would it not be better to save a few $$$ with some non-finishes.
We all know this will never happen, although it really would make sense to do so. The Mercedes management now have a test as they have forced their own hand in meaning they will need to show a strength against their drivers now. Having ousted Ross Brawn, they will be left with egg on their face if they now deal with situation in a poor way.
Having made Nico feel like a number 2 driver in Malaysia, they have a difficult job to make both feel they are being treated equally now. If they have both broken the engine mapping settings once, then to date the score is 1-1. Now is the perfect time to keep it all balanced, although I don’t see Nico’s great favour being “remembered” anytime soon.
As for a certain someone saying people are getting on the anti-German bangwagon, that can only be described as tosh. If anything it is about the perceived wrongdoing being against a fan favourite in the UK, Lewis Hamilton.
One view that does not seem to have been observed over recent days is that Lewis has played this situation all wrong. He could have put a positive spin on the qualifying incident instead of sulking in a similar manner to a family pet that is ignored when a baby is brought into the family. Rather than using the Senna example and deciding to once again compare himself he could have hinted at the fact Nico had his off in Hamilton’s strongest sector of the track. He could have said, “we’ll never know if I could have gone quicker, Nico going off caused that.” Although this goes completely against Lewis’ personality.
The petulant behaviour we saw was silly, but in fact could be taken as a sign of maturity. If he had stayed there and uttered some drivel back at Benedict Cumberbatch’s questions he would be even more of a laughing stock. Maybe it was in fact Lewis realising his limitations.
This game of chess that is unfolding before us will rumble on both in front of the cameras and behind the scenes in Brackley and Stuttgart. Canada will be important for Hamilton to show that he can’t be controlled in a puppet like fashion, as it was Nico who called the shots in Monaco. The narrative of 2014 will rumble on for all to see, so relish it while it lasts.
Verstappen says F1 world ‘talking about’ son Max (GMM)
Jos Verstappen was in the Monaco paddock. The 42-year-old Dutchman was a highly popular formula one driver for multiple teams until 2003, including Benetton and Minardi.
In 1998 he replaced Jan Magnussen at Stewart. This year, Dane Magnussen’s son Kevin made his F1 debut for the top team McLaren. Now Verstappen is hoping his own son is close to making the leap.
De Telegraaf newspaper reports that the reason for Jos Verstappen’s Monte Carlo paddock visit was to talk to his F1 contacts about his son, 16-year-old Max.
Last year, Verstappen jr made the step from karts to cars, and in 2014 he is racing in the FIA’s highly-regarded European F3 championship.
Verstappen has already secured his first pole and win, and so his well-known father was keen to spread the word among the decision-makers in the world of F1.
“It’s nice to see that there is plenty of interest in Max,” Jos is quoted as saying afterwards. “His performances have not gone unnoticed, people are talking about him, and that’s always a good sign,” he added of Verstappen jr, whose mother Sophie Kumpen was a successful kart driver.
Toro Rosso rookie Daniil Kvyat raced in the European F3 series last year, and on the grid this year is Lucas Auer, the nephew of F1 legend Gerhard Berger.
Rules and Regulations
Hotly debated in the TJ13 World Headquaters was the Rosberg incident in qualifying that not only cost Lewis Hamilton a second shot at pole, but also impeded other drivers further down the grid.
To debate the issue of whether it was a vindictive act is a fruitless task as nothing will change from the event. If Nico did do it on purpose he has shown that not only could he be a body double for Leonardo di Caprio, but can also act like him as well as he delivered what would have been a flawless manner in the press conference that followed. If anything, it was a smart move.
The more polemic topic was whether Nico was correct to reverse back on to the circuit as he claimed he did not know where Lewis was out on track (even though he would have known he was behind him as Rosberg had left the garage first).
One member of the team thought it was an unfair situation that was brought on by the rule book and nobody else. There is no regulation in place for prohibiting a driver from reversing back onto the track having gone off. With team radio and modern technology, it is easy to see where each driver is on the track.
One member argued the point that too much regulation would take away the luck part sport and potentially kill the spectacle. Another argued that the lack of regulation leaves a loophole to be exploited by a cunning driver.
Had Rosberg been forced to stay down the escape road until there were a big enough gap on track to not affect anyone else’s lap, then there would be no Rosberg incident to speak about. However, not only could the rule be difficult to write and enforce, it could also make the sport even more difficult to understand for the casual viewer.
What do you the TJ13 readers think? Where do you stand on this issue?
Jordan tells friend Sauber to sell F1 team (GMM)
Eddie Jordan has urged Peter Sauber to follow him into F1 retirement.
Actually, having sold his Silverstone based team back in 2005 that today is called Force India, Irishman Jordan is now an outspoken expert pundit for British television.
But selling up, he told the Swiss newspaper Blick, “was the best decision of my career. Since then I have enjoyed every day of my life.”
Earlier, the veteran Blick correspondent Roger Benoit described Sauber’s 2014 predicament as “embarrassing“, after the backmarker Marussia in Monaco moved ahead in the constructors’ world championship.
“We talked in Monaco for a long time about Sauber,” Benoit said, recounting his conversation with the 66-year-old Jordan.
Jordan said: “Sauber are in the biggest crisis they’ve ever been in, but I’ve always rooted for him. Because he (Peter Sauber) is the most honest guy in the paddock. I can’t say the same thing about me!” he laughed.
“But it’s obvious that they’ve reached the point where it can’t go on like this. Before the damage is even greater, the best solution would be to stop and sell the team. I don’t say this lightly, but Sauber can no longer compensate for their disadvantages on the financial side, and also on the engine side as well,” Jordan added.
Already reportedly up for sale is the Caterham team, and in Monaco it was said that an obvious potential buyer was the former Benetton and Renault chief Flavio Briatore.
But the flamboyant Italian told the news agency PA Sport that he would rather hang on to his millions.
“What you are sure of is the team is losing money, and I’m not interested in buying any team that loses money,” said Briatore.
Caterham’s current team owner, Tony Fernandes, is yet to respond to multiple media enquiries about the situation, after his London football club Queens Park Rangers earned promotion to the premier league.
“Am so behind on tweets and emails and sms,” he wrote on Twitter. “Got thousands of congratulations. Apologises for delay.”
Leimer finally gets F1 chance
Having being snubbed by F1 mainly on account of his bank balance and lack of big money sponsors, Leimer will drive 300km today as part of a Pirelli tyre test.
Having previously tested for Sauber back in 2011, Leimer will be hoping the further mileage now will improve his chances of a 2015 drive. Having taken the 2013 GP2 crown, as per the rules of the series, he is excluded from competing in GP2 again. Having failed to secure a drive, he was left out in the racing cold so the laps at Paul Ricard, in France, will be somewhat like gold dust to the Swiss driver.
Pirelli tweeted this earlier this morning.
A bit of briefing with Mario Isola @pirellisport @fabioleimer #GP2 #F1 pic.twitter.com/2vxO1RGzjP
— GP2 Series Official (@GP2_Official) May 27, 2014
Lewis, master strategist or not?
The way to win the Monaco GP is simple for a strategist. Get your driver on pole position, then keep him driving until a safety car is deployed, Then, get your man to make the mandatory one tyre change and send him on his way to the chequered flag and victory.
Lewis Hamilton knew his only chance to win the race would be to adopt a contra strategy during the pit stops to his team mate. Hamilton realised when he arrived upon the scene of the Adrian Sutil wipe-out on the exit of the tunnel that the debris everywhere would require a period under the safety car.
However, during the 26 seconds it took for the two Mercedes cars to pass Sutil and reach the pit lane entry, the safety car was not deployed. There was possibly a gamble to be made and stop anyway, knowing it was inevitable that there would imminently be a period under the safety car.
Lewis failed to make the call and the team decided it would be prudent to wait for Charlie Whiting to make a decision.
When the safety car was deployed during the following lap, the team issued the same instructions as last year for Lewis to create a 4 second gap to Nico and pit on the same lap as the race leader, Hamilton’s chance was gone.
Lewis lambasted himself over the pit to car radio because it appeared he had missed a chance to pit a lap before Rosberg in an effort to gain the advantage.
In a separate transmission on the same theme, Lewis questioned the team saying, “we should have pitted on that lap before but I knew you wouldn’t call me in, guys.”
Following the Mercedes pantomime in Monaco, we now know from Toto Wolff and from Hamilton that the drivers do not have a race tactician each. The team decides the race strategy for both cars which is optimum for the team’s result.
There are clear rules on what the driver can and cannot do, and one of those includes calling pit stop strategy. In a number of teams there is a rule that permits the lead driver first choice of lap number they wish to stop on; the driver behind gets second choice.
This is not the case in Mercedes as the team strategist will make the call and hence why Lewis was complaining both during and after the race.
Yet some pundits have questioned what was there to stop Hamilton just informing the team he will be arriving for tyres with minimal notice? Had Hamilton made that call would Mercedes have refused to service his car? If they had waved him through onto another lap still shod with his old boots, that would not have been in the interest of the team.
So maybe Lewis should have acted with the courage of his convictions and forced the issue.
Had Lewis taken matters into his own hands, forced the team to change his tyres – and even if he’d had a perfect stop – the strategy would have failed.
The track temperature on Sunday was in the mid 20 degrees and earlier stoppers had demonstrated that the undercut wasn’t working because the new rubber was taking time to get up to full speed.
To add to this, Lewis was only 15 seconds ahead of Fernando Alonso in fitth place, and following his stop would have rejoined behind Raikkonen (3), Ricciardo (4) and Alonso (5).
So with no faster new tyres and traffic in front of him, Lewis having stopped would be seeing his team mate blast through sector 1 and into sector 2 at full pace before the deployment of the safety car. At this point all the cars on track wherever they were would have been required to slow to a delta time until they caught the safety car.
Nico would have pitted and returned to the race still ahead of his team mate. Then, had either Raikkonen, Ricciardo or Alonso decided not to pit, then Hamilton would have been disadvantaged further.
The team made the right call for Lewis, even though he is beginning to see favouritism for his German colleague in the clouds of paranoia.
This mentality may not be helped by some of the rumours doing the rounds over the mysteriously slow pit stop Hamilton suffered from the pit crew during the Spanish GP.
Its one thing for Hamilton to wage war with Nico in the psychological arena, yet if Lewis begins to really believe the team is against him and favours Nico, then as Damon Hill stated, “the most likely way Lewis will be beaten – is by himself”.
Monaco must must change or die
Thankfully, Monaco is over for another year. The pros all agree, anyone proposing a new F1 circuit with Monaco’s layout would be immediately captured by men in white suits. The stats say it all; only 1 driver in over 10 years has won here when not starting on pole.
Further, the farce of qualifying being ruined in the closing stages of a pole shoot-out by yellow flags – is far more probable here than anywhere else on the calendar.
Even the corporate entertaining has faded, as during tough economic times, company directors have realised their shareholders may not be impressed with huge expenses in the annual accounts listed under the heading of “Monte Carlo”. Singapore and the Middle East are easier to justify as places where business in the 21st century is likely to be done.
Yes there were a few sparkling moments to match the flash of sunlight on the azure coloured waters of the Mediterranean Sea. The F1 historians will be hard pressed to find another example of Hulkenberg passing Magnussen at Portier whilst racing for position.
Then the hustle that Bianchi pulled on Kobayashi – who is infamously tricky to go wheel to wheel with – defined Marussia’s day. All F1 fans must have been delighted to see the team with the smallest F1 budget score their first championship points.
The short sighted thinking of Charlie Whiting, FIA’s rule maker, was once again prevalent. Whilst the new 5 second penalty introduced this year has almost universally been accepted as positive, the lack of clarity in the writing of the rule left teams unsure as to exactly how it should be operated.
The penalty must be taken at a pit stop, or if the car does not stop again since receiving the penalty, 5 seconds will be added to the race time. Of course we all now know the penalty cannot be taken under the safety car, but Charlie failed to think through the scenario where the only pit stop would be during a safety car period.
Marussia stopped Bianchi for 5 seconds during his one stop under the safety car anyway – to ensure they didn’t fall foul of the ‘deep magic’ hidden within Charlie’s book. They suffered a 5 second penalty added to Bianchi’s time in addition, which may have cost the Frenchman eigth position.
Formula 1 has to seriously look at this event. It is no co-incidence the BBC didn’t bother wasting one of their 9 live F1 weekends to broadcast Monaco this year.
Monaco was once glamorous when the rest of the year was spent racing in fields, yet billions has been spent around the world building world class F1 racing facilities for both drivers and the fans. We have night races and day-night races, together with circuits far better suited to the monster power and acceleration of the modern F1 cars.
Pirelli didn’t help this year as their tyres are much more durable than in the past. This meant Rosberg could have maybe held position for even 45-50 laps – waiting for a safety car – before having to pit. Yet the Italian tyre manufacturer cannot be blamed due to the lack of available testing time with the new engines delivering 4-5 times the amount of twisting power.
Yes, watching the 2014 torque beasts hurtle through the first section of the swimming pool was mesmerising, but this does not justify a 78 lap procession.
The final nail in the coffin of Monaco, maybe the quality of life the F1 writers now endure. 200 Euros a night for a room with 2 small bunk beds and just a small chest of drawers and at some distance from the city centre. A number of them are becoming increasingly negative about Monaco which is understandable when in Abu Dhabi for the same price they acquire a 100 sq metre suite.
If the Monaco F1 weekend is to survive, it must change. Options include time trials for points and two shorter sprint races on both Saturday and Sunday, or even make the entire weekend a celebration of F1 through the ages.
Any new commercial owners of F1 could well have far less patience with this style over substance event which contributes zero financially to their coffers. Further, this writer and others would not shed a tear with the burial of a once great event.
Nico Rosberg uninjured in tragic accident with bystanders
World Championship leader, Nico Rosberg, was involved in an accident that has left two bystanders hospitalised. A security guard and a tourist were left with injuries, the latter in a serious condition was transported by helicopter to the local hospital.
Rosberg was visiting the German national football team at their training camp in St.Leonhard as they prepared for the 2014 World Cup tournament in Brazil. The team were joined by Rosberg and an upcoming DTM star, Pascal Wehrlein.
Mercedes had set up a closed circuit near the grounds and were using the drivers to film a commercial. for advertising purposes. Two players from Schalke 04, Julian Draxler and Benedikt Howedes, were passengers in the cars being driven by the racing stars. According to eye-witnesses, the cars were travelling at high speed along a stretch of track and the Mercedes driven by Wehrlein lost control as he swerved to avoid contact with Rosberg.
Mercedes have just realised a statement: “An incident occurred during a visit to the training camp of the German National Football team: while driving on a closed circuit, the DTM driver Pascal Wehrlein wounded two people who they unexpectedly encountered as they walked along part of a stretch of the closed track. We can not make any statement regarding the severity of the injury, as both the injured parties are currently undergoing medical treatment. Pascal Wehrlein was unhurt in the incident. We are deeply saddened by this incident and we send best wishes for a speedy recovery to the injured. We will work in full cooperation with the authorities to determine the exact circumstances of the accident. “
Wasn’t Lewis given a penalty at the Hungarian gp, I think it was 2011, when he spun off the track and came back, just in front of Di Resta, that almost resulted in a collision?
Well the same thing could’ve happened on Saturday. But as the judge said, with modern technology and team radio, I think it would be an easy rule to police. By simply issuing the team with the following directive during qualifying….
“If any driver leaves a part of the track that may result in an incident whilst trying to rejoin, should only do so, if instructed by the team that it’s clear and safe to do so”
Judge you failed to mention, that nico did admit that he saw Lewis in his mirror, when he was reversing back into the track.
Are you sure Lewis is a fan favourite? I ask, because his behaviour from Saturday onwards, was nothing we have not seen in the sport before. It’s not like he got out his car and went to another teams garage to fight another driver (coultard v Schummi), Irvine v senna and so many more….
Now I maybe wrong, but could his dislike be for who he is and not what he does? Because if you look on some of the comments being made and written about him by even respected journalist, about who his friends are (blinged out rappers), lifestyle, girlfriend, tattoos, earrings etc….
I don’t like playing the race card, but we can’t deny that a lot has to do with his race, because what he’s doing is nothing different to what those before him has done, but they were adored for that kind of behaviour. Hunt was the biggest playboy in the sport, but when he’s talking about, nobody mentions that side of him.
Lewis in Hungary was different. He span his car around on the racing line in a race – on the track. Rosberg waited for the track to clear before rejoining it. He was down the slip road as Lewis passed him. Everyone keeps banging on about Rosberg rejoining the track in front of Lewis when that blatently didn’t happen. It looks like Nico sees Lewis coming and stops 2-3 car lengths down the escape road.
These two instances are significantly different.
Frankly the race thing is completely irrelevant and pretty insulting for most F1 fans to read. Look at the stick Vettel got for Multi 21, that was akin to what happened in Spain in that team orders were broken and the other driver (Webber) had previously broken team orders to try and gain position vs him. Booed the world over. I guess everyone is xenophobic and racist? !
I don’t mind what Lewis did in Spain, neither do I mind what Vettel did re Multi 21. That’s the killer instinct champions have.
I think you need to look again mate, or better yet, listen to Rosberg’s words…..
“I didn’t know where Lewis was, but I saw him in my mirror when I was reversing”….
The judge eluded to it above.
Yes he waited until the track was clear before fully returning to the track no one is disputing that at all, nor was it suggested that he reversed back on to the track in front of Lewis.
The judged asked for suggestions on how to police the issue of drivers reversing back on to the track. So If you had read what I wrote properly, you would’ve realised I was just giving a suggestion as to how they could police an issue like that.
On top of Fortis96’s most recent reply, here is my rambling reply.
I think Fortis has a point re: the reaction to Hamilton and racism.
Look, it’s not a defence against racism to say “everything can’t be racist, I find it insulting for anyone to bring it up”. Anyone with an understanding of racism knows that it doesn’t develop through blatant name calling, but on ‘dog whistles’ of subtle messages. To simply say “it’s impossible that rational people are being racist” is nonsense.
So, all I see Fortis as trying to say is this.
1. Many drivers do and have done what Hamilton and Rosberg have done; used what they can to their advantage. There are really no perfect sportsmen (one line I saw – can’t remember whether it was Coutlhard or Mark Hughes – was that any potential world champion NOT using a better engine mode – regardless of agreed rules – is not doing their job). The difference with ‘Multi 21’ is that everyone heard Horner had instructed, over the radio, Vettel to NOT do what he did. Vettel publically refused to follow team orders. That is pretty bad in F1. it’s much like Hamiltons stupid leaking of telemetry at McLaren.
2. We know, as everyone knows, Hamilton (yes, a bit like Senna) clearly thinks he is the best out there (to think that is his job) and clearly takes any ‘injustice’ as personal and deeply wrong. This is his ‘wearing his heart on his sleeve’. Obviously, he would be well advised to try and publically rise above the fray. But, if people think this is him being a child, or being petulant, they are being a little incredulous. Most competitive sportsmen worth their salt would react, internally, the same way. The problem for Hamilton is habit of expressing those thoughts.
But, to think he is somehow especially immature, or petulant, or childish is unfair. The problem for him is habit of expressing this publically – if anything for being too honest – rather that dealing with it privately. But, I don’t think his attitude is fundamentally rare. To simply shrug and go “that’s life, you win some you loose some” is not what top sportsmen do. The problem for Hamiton is he never says that publically! 🙂
I’d rather support innocent self-righteousness, than under-hand cynicism.
5. What worries me about the reaction to Hamilton are two things. As Fortis says, there is no need to suggest he is distracted by ‘bling’ or his friends. IF there was evidence that his circle of friends meant he missed work, or had not concentrated, fine. But there is no suggestion of that. Instead the suggestion that sometimes arises is that he hangs around with the ‘wrong kind of people’, as Fortis says. This is, to me, a subtle hint of racism “we don’t like those types around here…with their loud music etc”.
6. On top, I’m sorry, but I have read things where people don’t like the fact he uses the phrase “man” when talking to people! Or, his diamond earring. That, in my book, is dangerously close to saying he should learn to talk and act more like other people in F1 – i.e. middle and upper class white men.
Indeed, sometimes people say Hamilton is ‘petulant’. That to me is a dangerously close word to ‘uppity’…and everyone should know how dangerous that is when discussing racism.
If anyone doesn’t like being careful with the language, tough.
Hamilton is a young, very rich, very talented black man. That he expresses that through a black culture is not something to be bothered about. F1 should be more concerned with a former champion saying something is “shit” than whether Hamilton acts like the black man he is.
Remember, this is a driver who faced fans at testing in Spain wearing afro wigs and making monkey noises. F1 basically shrugged at that.
——————————————
On to the problem at hand…
This has become a tit-for-tat between the two which is forging the mistrust. The direction seems to be:
a. Rosberg using higher engine mode in Bahrain
b. Hamilton doing the same in Spain (annoying Rosberg).
c. Rosberg retaliating with the manoeuvre in Monaco.
d. Hamilton believing that was deliberate.
So, in conclusion, this is tit-for-tat and events mean they no-longer trust each other. To say somehow Rosberg is the more mature because he keeps it to himself is partly true, but ignorant of the fact that if anything Rosberg could be the more cynical and calculating. In this way, Rosberg could be far less ‘sporting’.
Can we agree in the tit-for-tat that:
– Rosbergs potential ‘crime’ was worse. Whether he did it or not, no-one agrees for sure. Hamilton thinks he did, and one can therefore understand his anger. There is no ‘proof’ either way. Though today Mark Hughes thinks even some team insiders think it was on purpose.
What if Rosberg DID do it on purpose, after his dads comments when Schmacher did the same, that would be pretty depressing.
– This cynicism from both sides is sadly what a lot of top sportsmen do.
– Rosberg is not quite as fast as Hamilton, but might be able to ‘wind him up’ and use other tactics.
– If Hamilton concentrate on his driving he’ll be WDC.
– Can he?
– Let’s hope that whatever happens mechanical failure or the double points silliness, does not decide this.
So, in this way, as Mark Hughes says in todays Motorsport, it is a bit like Prost / Senna 🙂
….”hanging with the wrong kind of people” – or words to that effect….
This is not racism because its the flotsam from a certain brand of ‘celebrity-land-ia’ who most observers suggest Hamilton would be best leaving behind….
To you sir, I take my hat off to you. That was the most eloquent and insightful piece of writing I have read on here.
Judge….
Let me bring to your attention, who some of these so called “brand of celebrity” he hangs around with…..
Jay Z…musician, business man, who can call the president of the United States a friend…
Dr Sean “p- diddy” Combs…. Musician, entrepreneur..(ciroc vodka, Deleon tequila, Sean John clothing company) yet another friend to the president of the United States, with a net worth in excess of $500m….
Swizz Beats (Nassem Dean)….musician/producer, entrepreneur (monster headphones), yet another friend to the president and now a student at Harvard business school….
Your getting the trend now right?
We are not talking about some illiterate and gung-ho people here. These are people with influence and power on their respective fields. So for all the talk about the people who he shouldn’t be associating with, there has been no evidence to show, that these people are having any negative effect on how he performs on the track. He is friends with people who are extremely ambitious, these people match his ambitions. So yes when people say things like that, it is indeed bordering on racism.
….a very selective list…. and one which omits the one person (and her direct associates) who messes his head up more than even Lewis can manage….
Yes it’s a selective list, but it’s a list that makes yours and the others who criticise the “so called celebrity” he hangs around with, look utterly stupid.
So he has found someone that he loves, is that so wrong of him? Please can you point out, which of her direct associates, that messes with his head?
Judge, you’re sounding petulant.
@the Gonch you are right re dog whistles, at least here in the States. Anyone using the words “those” and “people” when talking about any group of non-whites is implying racism, regardless of what they meant.
Neither schumi nor senna acted like spoiled brats in those examples you mention. Lewis did. I dont mind the typical I want to win everything mentality of the best drivers… but if you play those kind of mind games you’ve got to be prepared to go all the way. And senna and schumi did go all the way, all the time. And lewis, to me, doesn’t do that. He acts like only he can play those tricks against rosberg but when it’s the other way around he’s in tears. He starts the fire but can’t handle the firefight. Rosberg is equally guilty of playing games but he has shown the world to be a better sport at it. Wich is why since monaco, I think rosberg has the upper hand in terms of mental strength. I said lewis would become champion this year when his move to mercedes came out. And until Saturday morning I still believed that. But now I don’t, not any more.
Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? So you have got 2 drivers that physically attacked another driver and you don’t think that was worse than what happened on Sunday?…. If they had done that on the streets, that’s something that would’ve landed them with a visit from the police mate. ….. Come on now. Take off your “I hate Lewis” tinted glasses and talk with sense.
I don’t care who you are, if you or I were in that situation, that we truly felt that we have been cheated, we all would’ve acted in the same manner!!… So I don’t see why everyone is going on about playing mind games… There was no mind games involve in that situation.
Can someone please point out to me this so called “mental strength” nico has that Lewis doesn’t?… All that talk is a load of bullshit!!! Up until this season, no one knew who the hell he was!! So now he’s got a good car, he’s now this cerebral figure with supreme mental strength? Come on now, you all need to calm down. You don’t get to where or achieve what Lewis has achieved in F1 by being weak minded, adaptable or without technical know how. Nico is and will always be an average driver.
So let’s stop talking like Lewis is this dumb ass monkey you feed peanuts to in a zoo!!
Nico has only won 1 race that they’ve both finished and people are talking about he’s got the upper hand, what upper hand, he had a 25pt head start and had it blown away in 4 races. Did you think that didn’t screwed with his head a bit, of you think not, then your just clueless… “I really hate coming 2nd to Lewis” he has probably saying that crap since his karting days!!
Lewis reaction had nothing to do with him being weak mentally or nico playing mind games…. he felt he was cheated and anyone in that situation, would’ve reacted the same way. If you don’t, then you must be a bloody VULCAN!!
“So let’s stop talking like Lewis is this dumb ass monkey you feed peanuts to in a zoo!!”
Hey man, some Monkeys at the Zoo are quite intelligent. I don’t think they’d like the reference. Don’t be so ‘speciest’. The poor monkeys. Tsk tsk!
You didn’t give my answer a good read, did you. I said I tipped hamilton for champion. Second year in row now to be exact. I was one of the few who was positive about the mercedes move right from the start. Like you said you don’t know me so don’t accuse me of hate. I’m entitled to my own opinion just like you. And all of us come here to share their opinion about f1.
Oh yes I gave it a good read, hence my reply.
Physically assaulting someone, is a lot worse than simply showing to the world, that your pissed off, because you felt your teammate deliberately cheated.
Geez Fortis96, calm down a bit. No, not everyone who felt cheated would have reacted the way Hamilton did; I wouldn’t have. Frankly I think Hamilton sounds whiney on the radio; Raikkonen, to me, has the right attitude with his ‘Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing’ response. Hamilton is a very good driver and will probably win the WDC this year, but I have to say he really seems petulant and comes off as not a fully developed adult. He would have gotten lots of respect from me if he had gone up to Nico, patted him on the back and told him he drove a good race, but that it wouldn’t happen again. And Nico would have gotten respect from me if he had made a goodwill gesture to Hamilton; that would be really playing mind games.
Are you an F1 driver?
👏👏👏👏👌👌👌
No, I’m not an F1 driver. I used to drive FF, F2000, and an all to occasional Atlantic race. I’ve done my share of risky shit and currently rock and alpine climb; I’ve been in tight situations and know how I react. Just saying, Hamilton and Nico would impress me a bit if they acted more mature – not that they care if I’m impressed or not.
Now, don’t be bashful. You also make a splendid glass of plonk, too! Multi-Talented you are indeed.
@Matt. Yeah, you’re right, a bit over the top. But the point is, if only F1 drivers can express opinions, then none of us can. So, Fortis96, do you drive in F1? Apply your own rule. Hot tip – 2012 Washington wines are really good.
Hmmm… didn’t mean to imply you were over the top, just really impressed with your journey as they tend to say. Besides, we already had this conversation and while I agree that it’s silly to restrict comments to F1 drivers, I know I pay more attention to your opinion since you *have* driven competitively. And your hint on the 2012’s is much appreciated indeed. 😉
When Senna hit prost in Suzuka at the first corner, he claimed that Prost should not have been there, because of the year before.
Sounds fairly childish to me. Senna often claimed god was on his side, therefore others arguments were irrelevant. That’s an immature argument.
Hamilton has never demanded or leaned on number one status / team orders. Schumacher did often, which to me is pretty spoilt.
And, in this case, as far as I can tell, they had a tit-for-tat before Monaco. Hamilton apologised. As a reaction Rosberg blocked Hamilton’s (and others) qualifying. So, is it grown up to accept an apology, then still seek retribution, as Rosberg (in Hamilton’s view) did.
I thought it was interesting that Hamilton said “I should have thought he would do that” as if to say, “I never assumed he would”.
So, in essence your argument is playing games is fine, as long as you keep it behind the scenes? Would you also argue that if you accept someone’s apology the games should stop? As far as Hamilton seems to view it, he did that, and Rosberg ‘reneged’ on that apology.
Also, a final point, apparently Hamilton is childish for his complaints to his team (pit stops and stuff). Fine. But, Rosberg is not childish for telling his team Hamitlon’s moves in defending in Bahrain were ‘not right’?
Also, if true, I think it’s pretty childish to not invite Hamilton to your wedding, if you really are friends.
I do agree though, Hamilton might be less mentally strong because he seems to let this stuff get to him. The real question is whether it affects his driving, or support within the team. it did for a while at McLaren, but he did come back stronger (in ’12).
obviously my post above was not to The Gonch.
Also, in reply to theJudge (cos for some reason I can’t).
1. If Hamilton has more mates with him, fair enough. That they are celebrity or not is irrelevant.
2. What are the examples that his celebrity mates have distracted him? When he has more friends with him than not, is his driving worse?
So, far, hasn’t his move to a ‘celebrity’ manage worked out? It might not of course! Is Rosbergs lack of celebrity friends why he has four more points, or is to more to do with the failure of Hamilton’s car in Melbourne?
Maybe if Hamilton had more celebrity friends they would help him relax and forget the sniping he sees.
Re: HAM being a “fan favorite”. It’s an interesting question.
His actions are not anything we haven’t seen before, in fact it’s nothing we haven’t seen from other drivers that same weekend during that actual press event.
HAM walked out on the press event to go see the doctor about his eye, could have been an excuse but whatever, and Button also walked out early from the same press tent because of how disappointed he was with how his race went.
So what’s the difference? They are both British, one is 29, one is 34, they both have one WDC, they both bring their model or singer girlfriends to the track, they both attend parties, etc, etc.
Lets not forget that Max Verstappen has a good Kart record, amongst them:
Winner– CIK-FIA European Championship, KZ
Winner – CIK-FIA European Championship, KF
Winner– CIK-FIA World Championship, KZ
3rd – CIK-FIA World Championship, KF
And that only in 2013!
Re- Rosberg/Hamilton
I guess as the drivers learn the new engine controls it opens up the door for changing modes without having to consult the pit wall as the driver will know what setting gives him most power
This is gonna be a real thriller with a bit of luck
Lessening the need for over-regulation, let’s make Monaco a 1-lap shoutout for pole, like they used to do in the early 00s. It would also be something “new” and “exciting” to talk about for that one race.
Good idea actually.
Fans of whatever drivers didn’t get pole would still cry their eyes out due to how that track rubbers in. Would need to reverse the order from Q2 or do two laps and draw numbers from a hat to go first and last like they do in ski / slalom.
So, Judge, why is the Mercedes the fastest car on the grid, and by so much? I feel like we had a lot of theories on why the RB was the fastest car over the past few seasons (flexi-wings, rake, engine mapping, EBD, coke bottle shape, etc.)… So what of this year’s Mercedes? What’s the secret?
Ross Brawn
Hence why Lewis I think praised Ross when asked about the car in one of the early season press conferences. No mentions of Wolff or Lauda…
Verstappen, the Dutch National Pride of F1 Racing…. His son Max is indeed an extreme talent. And with the protection of his father Jos, he will certainly become the most succesful F1 driver we ever had and ever will get.
This little talented racing monster is a breed of two very talented racers, besides his dad, his mother was also an karting champion in her days!
So the Dutch answer to all the Senna’s, Schumacher’s and Vettel’s is a pure raceing breed: Max Verstappen.
Rememberhisname
Yes, but it doesn’t roll off the tongue like “Frijns Frijns Frijns!” You should get on that LOL.
That’s true… Frijns is for 2015 fun and joy. He could be the most succesfull Dutch driver for a little while! (untill Max comes around)
He’s (Frijns) from my hometown, so some extra chauvonism is to be found and expressed here and there. Because in the End … as Finisching touch, God created the Dutch…. remember!
Can’t wait to see Magnusen Jr vs Verstappen Jr in F1 and the dads going at it in the paddock!
Truly a ‘golden era’ for Dutch talent… we could have Frijns, de Vries, Verstappen…. JS said Max is ‘proof you can genetically engineer a racing driver’ heh.
But seriously, the ‘youngest driver’ record could be under threat to young Max.
Re: rule change
If you cause a yellow flag, your fastest lap in that session is cancelled; if you cause a red (session stopped) you lose all times in that session.
Personally, I think it’s just the luck of the draw, but if we need to deal with it, those rules couldn’t be simpler.
There is already a rule about waiting until the track is safe before rejoining, but that wouldn’t fix the perceived problem here – hence my suggestion.
… as I’ve written, this is more likely to be a problem in Monaco than anywhere else…
I think the question is, would the yellow flags still have been shown if Rosberg had waited at the end of the runoff road? If the answer is yes, then it makes no difference that he reversed.
This site has taken a turn for the worse, ever since the straw grabbing from Hamilton haters after Monaco.
Second day of hate filled vitriol. Ignores some plenty of facts and respected opinions.
Cringeworthy writing here. An opportunity to spout hate was taken…but at the expense of longer term respect for this site.
Best to read Mark Hughes..far more in the know.
Oh but you’re wrong. Only this time it’s against hamilton. Not vettel. So more people mind…
Welcome to the club mate. Now you know how it felt being a Vettel supporter last year. You guys weren’t so sensitive then. How come?
Vettel went against the clear and PUBLIC radio message of his team boss.
Where is the equivalency with Hamilton?
The argument here should be ‘was Rosberg right to act as cynically as Vettel did’. I think not, because it seems Hamilton (perhaps naively) thought the air was clear with his previous apology.
My problem with Vettel last year is that it was such a blatant act against the wish of the team. Both Ros and Ham have done that this year (engine settings, though Ros claims it was normal), but Ros is potentially 2:1 up because of Monaco qualifying.
From my own perspective Hamilton was a prat and out of order for leaking the telemetry in ’11.
But, you tackle the ball and not the man and Monaco is different.
… I think there’s a feeling many have about “Leopards and spots” with Hamilton….
Yes the telemetry tweet was idiotic…
Then during the first 6 races of 2011 he consistently wanted us to believe he was being hounded and unfairly treated – culminating in his famous “maybe its because I’m black” comment – which was also ridiculous – ironic intentions or not…
Singing for Fuller and XIX was never going to teach Lewis anything in life, except how to be a celebrity… and on the whole the cult of celebrity and the way they behave impresses not the many….
Then we have Hamilton’s ‘new birth’ and religious speak… “blessed” this and “blessed” that and praying for Sutil – just adds to the perceived persona that he wants to be something/someone he was/is not….
Can he ever change??? Some people just can’t… a la Paul Gascoigne….
If he can’t – the same old silliness will just repeat itself… and appear more and more childish….
Fair enough. Though the interview with Peter Windsor did mention his long held religious beliefs. But, I’ll admit, I don’t like that sort of stuff from sportsmen as well (US golfers thanking god for winning, etc).
And, I think in ’11 he did think he was unfairly treated. I mean, he gets himself into these scrapes with, yes, naivety, but he did have half a point. Knowing Ham he still goes on about Raikkonen and Spa 🙂
I also hate XIX for some reason (because of what it means for sport to become so celebrity obsessed). At the same time I thought it was pretty mature of Hamilton to ditch his dad (and, I do not think he went to Merc for the money).
This year will tell if he can ever change. But, c’mon, he was pretty great in ’12.
“This year will tell if he can ever change. But, c’mon, he was pretty great in ’12.”…
Agreed, and he had to put up with Ron Dennis trying to hound him out of the team that year – but he eventually lost it with his tweet in Spa…
But Lewis is experiencing nothing other drivers in history haven’t had to contend with…
Yet again another piece of rubbish writing by the judge!!!
So now your taking offence him using the word “bless”?…
So are you saying, “all celebrity behave inappropriately?”
Aren’t you immediately a celebrity when your amongst the top 1% in F1?, exactly how does one shun that side of their life? Isn’t that part of the package of being a top athlete?
Yet another piece of great writing by the Judge !!!!!
The fact it’s annoying and upsetting all you blinkered biased fanboys – shows it’s greatness …
😀
@ fortis. Well if you don’t like the judge’s articles than why do you come here?
@bruznic
Never said I didn’t like the judges articles, in fact I find his views more enlightening that the standard drab that’s being written in mainstream media.
But that does not mean I’ve got to agree with everything he writes, example yesterday’s article. Which I found was written with the lack of objectivity, but showed levels of petulance (the same thing he was accusing Hamilton of)
So I come here to do the same as you and everyone else, to read proper articles and to give my opinions, whether anyone agrees or disagrees with them.
I’m sure the judge doesn’t write articles and expects everyone to agree with everything he says, if that was the case, then “the voice in his head” would either go away or become worse.
So I’m here to learn as well try to be informative myself.
Cheers 😉😉😉
Happy for anyone to disagree….
@ The Gonch
your comments are extremely eloquent but have one fatal flaw which destroys them completely.
Your whole agreement is based on your biased opinion that Rosberg ” cheated ” in qualifying in Monaco.
There is absolutely NO evidence to support this.
Had there been the Stewards and the FIA would have taken action.
Nico was completely exonerated – FACT.
Being exonerated, does not mean your not necessarily mean your not guilty.
… the voices… the voices…. please make them go away 😉
@ Fortis96
in which stupid demented la la land – does being exonerated not mean not guilty ?
As Danilo said – maybe you’ve got the wrong URL …… ?
Bang your head against the keyboard and see if that works 😉
@manky…
OJ Simpson 😉
Yet again Fortis you show your stupidity …….
You have a biased view that he was guilty.
An opinion not shared by the jurors in that trial ….
Were you there ? Did you see and hear all the evidence ?
Want to come up with another bullshit answer ?
Please – go ahead
😀
@manky
I can’t, my level of stupidity doesn’t go that far…😉😉😉
Actually, it’s pretty simple.
The stewards said there was no conclusive evidence it was done on purpose. I have no argument with that fact.
So, why do people (perhaps a minority) think he did it on purpose? Perhaps because the burden of proof of proving, unequivocally, that he did it on purpose cannot be met. i.e. innocent until PROVEN guilty. No problem with that. He has not been proven guilty, therefore by the letter of the law he is not guilty. One has to accept he was not guilty, by the due process followed.
It does not mean it is not possible to still have suspicions. Other people in the paddock do, why? Take James Allen for example. He has been a fairly vocal critic of Hamilton, yet in comments under a post today has:
—-
“kenneth chapman Reply:
May 27th, 2014 at 12:42 am
well james, that summary seems to conflict with hamilton’s jab. he claims to have ‘seen’ evidence to the contrary but can’t share it?
what has he ‘seen’ that the stewards haven’t had access to?
[Reply]
James Allen Reply:
May 27th, 2014 at 9:29 am
I have no idea.
The stewards have access to everything, of course.
Scuderia McLaren Reply:
May 27th, 2014 at 2:36 am
That’s not how Toto, Lauda, or the Stewards describe it. There is no hint of it being ‘inconclusive’.
It’s pretty clear, there was no deliberate malintent. It’s hard to fake it, even Schumacher the 7 time WDC in his pomp couldn’t do it.
Lets be real. James normally you are much better than buying into and/or promoting cloudy BS about a matter that’s pretty clear.
[Reply]
James Allen Reply:
May 27th, 2014 at 9:22 am
It’s not as simple as that but I can’t break confidences to explain.
You’ll have to take my word for it”
—-
It’s just rumour, without evidence, so not very substantial. But people who have never seemed huge fans of Hamilton are not so quick to exonerate Rosberg.
Do you think Schumacher hit hill on purpose in Adelaide ’94? If you do think he did it on purpose, how do you prove it? if not, how do you prove it?
I do think Hamilton reacted badly at the end of GP. I do think, as the judge says, he must do well at Montreal or he’ll have a real problem and might well ‘loose it’. I still think Singapore ’12 and jumping to Mercedes was Hamilton losing it a bit, because he was so annoyed at not winning that race.
But, I also think to present Rosberg as some innocent party is naive in the extreme. I agree with Mark Hughes, Rosberg is a little bit slower than Hamilton, so is trying to find other ways to make up the gap.
@ The Gonch
yet again you are distorting the truth to the point of blatantly LYING !
You said – ” The stewards said there was no conclusive evidence it was done on purpose. ”
THEY DID NOT SAY THAT !
If you bothered to look at Mattpt55’s posts of the Official FIA docs on the 25th –
From the Dept of Is it Getting Warm in Here?
https://thejudge13.com/2014/05/25/f1tech-treasures-the-f1-race-weekend-in-official-fia-documents-monacogp/
it clearly says –
NO offence was committed by the driver of car 6
Not inconclusive ….
Not insufficient evidence ….
NONE !
FACT !
IDIOT !
😀
The Stewards examined video and telemetry data from the team and FIA and
COULD FIND NO EVIDENCE OF ANY OFFENCE
related to the turn 5 incident.
https://thejudge13.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/satnaughtystep4.jpg
LOL, thanks for flogging my article. Nice to know people read it. 😉
@ Matt
I always read your articles – they’re great – even if I don’t always agree with you.
@manky let’s face it, life would be pretty dull without the occasional disagreement. And thanks for the compliment, BTW, appreciate it very much. 🙂
The difference was you all only minded it when vettel did it. When webber didn’t obey the order in England you all yelled good for him. He’s a true racer
well said bruznic
😀
….how can you cast such terrible aspersions in the direction of the honourable Mark…. Mrs Judge will be after you… 😉
@ Judge
On a lighter note – what’s going to happen in the Judge’s household in a couple of weeks time ?
Canada F1 v Le Mens ?
The timings great on Sunday – but Saturday’s a bit of a problem.
Will Mrs Judge have control of the remote ? Or are separate TV’s the order of the day ?
🙂
Mrs Judge will apparently be enjoying fresh locally sourced escargot and the limbs of a amphibious creature whilst the cars go round and round….
Maybe I want misses judge to come after me. Mine is gone for the week 😆
@ Judge
it’s a shame that the amphibious creatures won’t be locally sourced 🙂
It illegal in France.
I believe they import them from Asia ….
I do hope Mrs Judge will enjoy them and the escargot none the less …
Especially if washed down with a nice bottle of Chablis
😀
Premier Cru I believe…
> Mrs Judge will apparently be enjoying …. the limbs of a amphibious creature
*Hides legs*
….. oh well – proves we favour nobody when they’re misbehaving 😉
Haha yes. Boys listen to Dad (unless it’s Mum at Williams!) 🙂
Also, hat-tip to your recent update. If, because he is paranoid, Hamilton is seeing opponents where there are non, this could be a problem. And, Rosberg is no doubt aware this is the thing to needle him on (just communicate with Wolf and Lauda in German,…etc!), which you have mentioned before.
Of course, as you hint at, Lewis got a similar treatment from Button, got paranoid, then did something daft like ‘the tweet’.
This is where – as a Hamilton fan – he could be more clever. Instead of getting wound up, he should use this to motivate himself and his mechanics.
And he should say to himself “there might be a conspiracy out there, but I’ll prove why they can’t even beat me when they gang up on me”. This is the ‘Fergie’ bunker mentality; create enemies, so you can focus on what you can do. The problem with Hamilton is whether he remembers that last bit. But, Button thinks he can.
Anyway, as Hughes has said, Rosberg shows he can be a streetfighter. Game on!
“Rosberg shows he can be a streetfighter…”
Happy days – this is what I was calling for from Rosberg … and wrote about a number of times following Spain… when all the headlines were “Hamilton dominates Rosberg”… “4 in a row”
The biggie now is Montreal – Lewis believes he is King there… If Lewis has a problem and/or Rosberg beats him – he could go into actual melt down….
From what I know, Hamilton’s adopted world view, it gives him coping mechanisms for the here and now – but the risk is should matters repeat themselves in a short space of time and build up…. we’ll get another “tweeting” style Lewis H who loses the plot completely…
I don’t care which of them wins the WDC, but we needed Nico to step up to the plate to stop a dull championship season….
Were you calling for Rosberg to perhaps do something like potentially win pole in controversial circumstances? No, but I saw a lot of comments saying that Nico had to ‘change things up’, etc. Well, when you can’t go faster, what do you do?
If Lewis finishes his Q3 lap, he more than likely takes pole, and then the win on Sunday. So in Lewis’ mind, he hasn’t been beaten by above-board means. If Nico had beat him to pole cleanly, and won on Sunday, then of course he’d be disappointed, but he wouldn’t have sulked as he did.
I see that Whiting is now suggesting that late yellows in qualifying should lead to increased time. This is a great idea, and if it comes about, then I guess this whole Monaco snafu will have had some redeeming lasting effect.
The fact the same people who criticised Vettel are only too happy to not criticise Lewis speaks absolute volumes.
They try to justify double standards, but really? What they did in Malaysia and Spain was very very similar. Both were justified IMO. Neither driver deserves booing over it. Aryton, Alain, Michael…. They’d all have done the same thing.
As I said above, I’ve no problem with either of the moves. I defended Vettel at the time, but thought he shouldn’t have apologised. Lewis did nothing wrong in Spain either. The said which engine mode to use and he ignored it. Oh well. Its racing after all.
What we’re really seeing here, which will annoy some of the posters, is that fans of a particular driver are happy to slate drivers when its not the one they support. That’s what it really boils down to. People criticising the Judge ? Laughable. The internet would have imploded if Alonso or Vettel had come out with some of this weekends comments from Lewis.
I’ll happily say i think Lewis’s actions post qualifying/race were pretty unsporting. Nico may have cheated (no one really knows) so stick a brave face on it, remeber you’ve beaten the guy 4 times on the bounce and be the bigger man. As I said yesterday I feel like Lewis learnt nothing from his time with JB.
Excellent comments Paul
😀
Absolutely Mike.
I can’t work out who’re more boring to plough thru. The lovers or the haters?
Enough already.
Some sensible comments from DC:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/10856795/Nico-Rosbergs-fractious-relationship-with-Lewis-Hamilton-at-Monaco-Grand-Prix-is-brilliant-for-Formula-One.html
And FWIW I agree with his take on Hamilton’s Senna comments. I suspect he is aspiring to beat Nico by a second in qualifying, rather than run him off the track.
Yep, who knows whether what Hamilton meant by ‘take a leaf…’ was ‘drive faster’. I love the way everyone opines about Hamilton’s immaturity, yet interprets his comment as meaning crashing into a rival! Lots of mature respect for Senna there…
The last quote I saw from Hamiton was words to the effect of ‘I’ve learned a lot this weekend, and will come back stronger”.
If he says no more about it, then, I reckon that’s pretty mature.
Did you read Jenson’s comments about how Lewis reacts when he feels he has been wronged?…. Quite insightful.
Yep, it’s why I think Hamilton does need to do well in Montreal (I agree with the Judge here).
I also think, I dunno, that whatever people say, reading between the lines I know who Button thinks is faster between Hamilton and Rosberg.
Canada will be a BIG race…
I don’t know if there is a way to work this out, but I wonder if Bianchi could have finished higher if they hadn’t added 5 seconds to his pit stop?
I think all rules have down-sides, it needs a race like this to highlight them so the rule can be modified or clarified for the future.
As for Monaco, I’ve been saying this for years. Make it an event, not a race. Maybe give some points for fastest laps etc or do a non-championship ‘race’ but giving normal points for this is about as unfair as double points in the last race.
Realistically, while it is great that Marussia got points, would they have done on any other track?
As it turned out he might have been further ahead of Grosjean – so maybe he would have kept 8th place ?
….. and the team knew towards the end of the race he would lose out to Grosjean because of the penalty – so they just made sure he kept it on the track….
Re Monaco… Does the Judge need some fluffier pillows? The quality of hotel rooms makes not a jot of difference to the average F1 fan, most of us are lucky to get to any races at all. You also presume the BBC has a choice over which races it gets, could it not be the case that Sky make that call and are attempting to erode the BBC’s coverage (not that it needs to) by taking away the “jewel in the crown”?
…. I was speaking of John Noble – Autosport’s “Group F1 Editor”…. who disparagingly tweeted a picture of his Monaco room last year commenting it was 200 euro’s a night…
One of the Sky F1 writers has also written a piece suggesting Monaco is faded glory…
“Since time immemorial, the mean streets of Monte Carlo have been depicted of the ultimate challenge of a driver’s ability, courage and concentration. Only this weekend, Fernando Alonso hailed the sport’s showpiece event as the first among equals of races to be won in F1. There is, we told, nowhere quite like Monaco…to which the armchair resident may be inclined to reply ‘that’s just as well’ because it is increasingly challenging to appreciate what all the fuss is about”.
Plus if anyone saw the Sky pre race show – Ted was showing how to live on a shoestring – you’d see how much of a rip off it is.
At least Eddie Jordan had his nice new Sunseeker there – so hotel prices wouldn’t matter to him … 😉
” Since time immemorial, the mean streets of Monte Carlo have been depicted of the ultimate challenge of a driver’s ability, courage and concentration. ”
Actually Judge – from the great article Carlo wrote about MONTJUIC – it would appear that drivers thought THAT was the ultimate challenge as a street circuit.
Thank you for the compliment. 😉
I also saw an article on James Moy’s blog (F1 photographer) who said pretty much the same thing. Basically, the rise of the ‘chavvy rich’, blasting party music until the early hours and nursing a hangover while the F1 cars roar past.. are detracting from the event. He says in the past, things would die down by 1am.. probably so everyone could watch the F1 the next morning..
Actually BBC decides which races it covers live – Sky has no say in that matter.
Did you hear that on the BBC? 🙂
I’m sure I read somewhere that the BBC get the first 3 picks, then Sky get the next 3 picks, and then one by one, until the end. It’s also worked out so that the BBC do not have 3 live races in a row, but equally that Sky do not have 3 exclusively live races in a row.
I think it was in an article from the F1 Broadcasting Blog.
I hadn’t seen the ” 3 in a row ” mentioned before – but it makes a lot of sense tho ….
Cheers davidD for the info 🙂
I couldn’t care less about “the quality of life the F1 writers now endure”. Go do something else if you can’t stand it.
Blimey!
I’ve been away for 2 weeks, and now reading this site is like being in the twilight zone!
I don’t even know why I feel the need to say this, but I’ve been a Hamilton fan since forever and I’m black too. (Which is why he appealed to me at the time because I don’t watch football, basketball etc, which is where you tended to find black sportsmen in Holland in the late 80s/early 90s)
I feel he was wronged on Saturday BUT this is Monte Carlo.. You gamble and sometimes (à la Nico) you hit the jackpot. Don’t get me wrong, I would have wanted to rip Nico’s head off as well but I would have taken solace in the fact that he only beat me twice, and even then it was through circumstances out of my control. With the amount of adrenaline and testosterone surging through these guys’ bodies though, that’s a hell of a lot easier said than done. Have you ever watched football players whine over the smallest things? This is sport!
I think the only way to settle this, is to give both Nico and Lewis 2 handbags each (one hard, and one supersoft) so they can let rip.
As for Nico: if he did it, then he answered all his critics (is he hungry enough/is he missing that killer mentality?) And if he didn’t, well thanks for a bit of controversy! Watching Lewis on a mission in Canada will be a sight to behold..
Prada handbags of course ;
New conclusion.. whoever wins in Hungary is the hungriest!!!
@ Jurgs
can I ask why you feel Lewis was wronged on Saturday and for what reason ?
I’m interested as you’ve already admitted your a die hard fan – but unlike certain other people here you don’t appear to be blinkered in your views about what happened.
LOL, tried to make this point the other day that either way doesn’t change the IMPRESSION (can you read it now manky) that Nico left with regard to his speed. Because no matter how you look at it WE didn’t get to see everyone’s final lap because of the yellows. Except Nico who either cocked it up or parked it on purpose, depending on your proclivities.
OK Matt – my bad
🙂
Ha, that’s what I get for trying to have a nuanced discussion about Hamilton with a Hippo fer cryin out loud. Don’t know what I was thinking (drinking?)…
You’re too right that Hamilton can clearly believe that he was faster than Nico all weekend, but only lost out on pole and the win b/c of Nico’s off.
That’s why when Niki says things like ‘Lewis just has to accept that someone else was quicker’, it would be even more infuriating for him to hear. It was an ill-gotten 14-point swing in the points, as far as Lewis is concerned.
Having said that, Lewis has to watch his mouth. Especially the comments like ‘if I was still at McLaren …’ type. If you were still at McLaren you’d be nowhere Lewis! I realize that the author tweaked his comments there as well (he said something like ‘at McLaren we each had a strategist …’, and then it became the eventual headline), but Lewis of course has to realize that that is what they (the press) do! They will twist any and everything to bending point, to juice up a story.
The weekend’s done, there’s no changing the result. Lewis just has to drop it, and blow Nico away in the next races. He’s more than capable of it.
This is the post-credit-crunch world (or so we are led to believe) – Asda or Primark it is!
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick! 80+ comments and I didn’t even take part. Gues I’m getting fat… no wait, I already was… *waddles off in confusion*
Let’s hope those that were involved in that accident, make it home tonight safe and well….👏👏👏
Shit.
TJ13 becoming popular. 91 responses, of the long ‘he said she said’ kind.
Tedious scrolling on the iPhone again…
Our record is well over 100….
130 and more. Those were the days…
@manky the first thing I said when I saw it happen, was “Eh? Surely he didn’t?” Then when they showed the various views, it did seem very dodgy. I’m by no means an expert though, which is why I’m sticking with the Stewarts’ decision. Just like with the flexi wings I might add!
Cheers for replying Jurgs
great comments
🙂
This site has always had it in for Hamilton. I stated this on a post here at least 6 months ago and this latest few days just highlights my point. His bling, his girl, his rapper mates, his interviews, these are the things you focus on. Forget that he is in the top three F1 drivers in the world on most peoples list and commands the millions that he does, that is all irrelevant. I would tell F1 where to shove it and go race IndyCar. American fans are way more accepting and I doubt he would be met with afro wigs and monkey calls.
I’ve been following this site ever since the analysis of the McLaren/Mercedes split and have gradually stopped visiting other sites. I think you’ll find the coverage here well-balanced, more so than on any other site!
And if you do feel the coverage is unbalanced, then why not write an article to redress it? I’ve just finished reading the rant about Hamilton and while I don’t agree in full, I still managed to take something away from it – as with the Fat Hippo’s rants in the past.
The afro wigs, monkey calls and blackened faces were seen in Spain. Without wishing to label all Spaniards with the same brush, they have a history of racist acts against sporting stars. Didn’t the FIFA fine some of the Spanish clubs because of the behaviour of their fans in regards this?
I have seen this ignorant attitude in different countries and here in the UK the clubs ban fans for life when caught. But it’s not merely a problem that is isolated to colour. I have witnessed quite disgusting abuse towards Senna at the end of the 1991 and 1992 British Grand Prixs, and have seen other nations attacked but because they are ‘white’ it seems to be more acceptable.
I was at a children party some years ago with my two daughters. Someone I knew who was a CID detective commented that having two girls must be my worst nightmare. When I asked why, he remarked “imagine them bringing a ****** home.”
I was sickened beyond belief and I never spoke to him again, but not before I told him – “some of my best friends are so-called minorities. They are hard-working, respectful and embrace family life. I have many white friends too and some use drugs, cheat and beat their partners. If my daughters meet someone who treats them with respect and love, I’ll be happy”
“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” – Martin Luther King
Thanks Carlo, comment of the week.
“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” – Martin Luther King
It’s a shame Lewis Hamilton hasn’t practiced that ….. eh ?
That thought alone would bring about another torrent of comments…. Hmm an article in there somewhere… 😉
Please do Carlo
I’d love to read it
🙂
Islam Shaffi, being good at what you do isn’t enough these days. With Alonso, Vettel, Räikkönen, Hülkenberg, Ricciardo, Rosberg and Bianchi there is a whole host of drivers, who can give Lewis a run for his money. They all have something in common. They don’t behave like idiots. Lewis did in Monaco, so he doesn’t deserve any kind of peculiar ‘puppy protection’. He opened his mouth wider than even the Hippo manages to do and he didn’t deliver. He embarrassed himself and has to live with the consequences, simple as that.
This site ‘has it in’ for anyone but Mark Webber, because the pricipal writer will not get any nookie if he says anything bad about the mediocre looser from Australia. So unless you are a glutton for punishment or rooting for lost cases, get used to your hero being badmouthed at some point.
” ………. get used to your hero being badmouthed at some point. ”
As it should be ……
And Sutil…
Wow, if there is one constant in F1 right now, it’s that news revolving around Hamilton generate MASSIVE amounts of interest. 100 comments already, that’s how good Hamilton’s stories are for F1 🙂
I think Hamilton is too publicly honest, that’s his main fault. He’s made Rosberg his enemy, and I think he’ll just focus on getting everything right for Canada, a track where he is traditionally super-fast. Not saying Rosberg is a slouch, but I think that with everything that happened in Monaco, Hamilton will arrive in Canada and be in “I will destroy you” mode. At least that’s the part of Senna’s book I would like him to take a leaf out of, only Hamilton will show if he really means it.
Regarding the qualifying in Monaco, ultimately it falls down to what people want to believe. I think Rosberg is definitely cunning enough to attempt thwarting Hamilton if he can get away with it, and he did. He tried, he won and good for him. I don’t know a single racer driven to win the title who would NOT try his luck if that can give him an advantage over his team-mate,. That’s the reason they are paid the big bucks, to find ways of going faster than their rival, even if it’s through foul means.
I really don’t get this ‘Nico had to thwart Lewis in Qualy’ argument.
The simple fact is that until that point he was faster. Indeed, the whole argument revolves around him needing to be faster in the first place!
Maybe what Lewis needs to take from the incident is that he pushed Nico in to a mistake, not throwing his toys out of the pram because he thinks he has been hard done by.
I hope the psychology people have been talking about is correct – that everyone thinks like this but only Lewis shows it – but I have my doubts.
I think part of the ‘mind games’ (if you can call them that) of Lewis against Nico up to that point was that he would always save something in reserve for that last flying lap, and then nip pole position from Nico at the very last moment. If he could’ve completed the lap, it would’ve been the same in Monaco. But if 2011 should’ve told him anything, it’s that you have to go full out on every quali lap, especially in Q3. If Lewis is ahead after the ‘banker’ Q3 laps, then there’s no controversy if Nico goes off at Mirabeau.
That still doesn’t absolve Nico if indeed he deliberately went off. If he did, and only he can know for certain, then that’s a damning admission of desperation. If he did, and he got away with it, then I wait to see what he does for an encore.
Regarding the quali incident where Rosberg couldn’t make the turn, I’m amazed that for 78 laps during the race he made it every time!!
Yes – I am suspicious despite the stewards inquiry. Nevertheless what drama it added to the event. We’re still debating the result days after the event!
Am thoroughly impressed with how Riciardo is doing this year, taking everything in his stride, making few mistakes, showing up his 4 time WDC teammate, and still smiling despite coming 3rd most of the time. As an aussie with an Italian name I’m sure he will amass plenty of fans (possibly including Mrs Judge!).
Aren’t you forgetting that somewhere near the end Nico made a complete Horlicks of that turn and nearly gave Lewis the win ?
Oh and BTW
haven’t you forgotten that Nico has fucked up under pressure in every quali session this year ?
Changing the subject from the rather tedious (to me anyway) drama between Lewis and Nico, watching that on-board camera mix video I was utterly amazed. The sound of the cars was fantastic! So much better than anything I’ve heard from the actual Sky coverage I watch. The “regular” coverage is simply awful in comparison to that video posted above, so, a simple question, who is getting coverage with those wonderful sounds?
yeah i wish I could mute the commentators and have the raw track sounds only.