Daily #F1 News and Comment: Thursday 15th August 2013

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2014 – Through the eyes of James Key and Mark Smith 21:00

Ferrari denies Raikkonen reports 12:00

Mercedes 2014 engines could produce 100hp more than rivals 12:00

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2014 – Through the eyes of James Key and Mark Smith (Formula1.com)

Formula1.com has a very interesting article on what the 2014 changes will mean. Explaining the changes is James Key (Torro Rosso Technical Director) and Mark Smith (Caterham Technical Director).

Mark Smith said the biggest challenge will be cooling. “That’s probably the thing that, I imagine, has most people up and down the pit lane scratching their heads.

It’s reasonably easy to come up with a solution that will cool, but to come up with a solution that will cool and give you the optimum aerodynamic performance is the challenge.

James concurs, “… yes, the cooling requirements are completely different. You’ve got a turbocharger with a charge cooler on it, you’ve got a much larger energy recovery system (ERS) which naturally pumps out more heat, and you’ve still got your gearbox, hydraulics, oil and water to cool, so you’ve got a completely different situation to what we’re used to.

You want to package that in the tidiest way you can. There are new technologies involved in all of this – it’s not stuff you can carry over.

We all know Adrian Newey likes to package things tight in his cars. Will Red Bull see more technical failures due to overheating next year?

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Ferrari denies Raikkonen reports

Yesterday TJ13 reported Raikkonen has signed a three year deal with Ferrari. They have come out in denial (again) telling the BBC, “Right now, we’re really not giving any thought to the driver-market situation“.

Ferrari is not saying they have not signed Raikkonen, they are saying they are not interested in the driver marked and want to focus on giving Alonso a title winning car.

That is our priority,[give Alonso a title winning car]. Drivers are not a problem for us even if we were to change Felipe.

In another statement from Ferrari denying any interest in drivers they said, “as you know, getting great drivers is not a problem for Ferrari“. This sounds like a direct attack on their once loved driver Alonso. Is another snub from Montezemolo showing Alonso who the boss is at Ferrari?

This denial is not surprising as one of the commenters yesterday noted ‘how do you incentivise someone if they know they are out’. Another asked if this is not just a way Raikkonen’s management is trying to barter a better deal with Red Bull.

Whatever the reason it will not be the first time something has been denied by Ferrari and turns out to be true.

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Mercedes 2014 engines could produce 100hp more than rivals

The 2014 turbo engine power outputs are a closely guarded secret. Speculation on how much power these new engines will produce has been ongoing and up to 900hp has been mentioned.

It now appear that this figure may have been very close indeed. According to AuMS, Mercedes have raised concerns with the the FIA regarding the new engine and its performance effect on the current specification tyres. According to Mercedes the increased power characteristics, rumoured to be c850hp in qualifying trim with torque 600nm, requires wider rear tires.

Mercedes further said that unless the driver is sensitive in applying the throttle he could induce wheelspin changing from 4th to 5th.This was challenged by Ferrari and Renault and the FIA asked Mercedes to share their performance figures to Pirelli. This happened and now the FIA share the same concerns with the result… at least 2cm wider rear tyres being proposed for 2014.

Although power figures have yet to be officially confirmed, the fact that Mercedes’s performance figures could induce wheelspin at said gears have resulted in a rumour in the paddock that the Mercedes engine could have up to 100hp more than it’s rivals.

Now that Pirelli tyre test… hmmmm makes you think does it not…

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25 responses to “Daily #F1 News and Comment: Thursday 15th August 2013

  1. That is great news for Merc and Lewis’s fans, but it doesn’t mean they’ll be the quickest car. I may be wrong. but I think the Cosworths in late 80s were producing 1200+ bhp, yet, no wins!

    • A 100+ hp difference would be a guaranteed win for one of the Merc powered cars for every dry race of the year. IIRC KERS gives 80+ HP boost. Now imagine an engine with a 20hp advantage and permanent uninterupted KERS. Even Chilton could get some points in such a car 😉

      • They wont have KERS next year, and what they do have in its place, is a whole load more than 80hp 😉

        • I’m talking about this years’s KERS. I was trying to illustrate a 100hp advantage using this year’s engines as an example.

      • Reliability will probably play a massive role next year and that could fall into the bullet proof Ferrari’s hands even if they are a bit down on power, although obviously not as much as 100hp which I doubt.

        • Back for a day and then I’m totally off the grid till next Monday, but I’ll bite. The new AMG inline 4 turbo produces 355 bhp and 332 torques (at 26 psi boost no less), which is the highest per liter bhp according to Merc. I don’t know how much crossover there is between the roadcar and F1, but based on that alone I wouldn’t go assuming Ferrari’s reliability to be so much better than Merc’s, never mind that as a manufacturer they have been headed that way for several years now to keep up with fuel regs.

          • But don’t forget that the engine is not designed or built by Mercedes; it’s built by Ilmor in England for Mercedes. I think the real issue is efficiency, as the fuel flow is limited to 100 kg/hr over 10,500 rpm and less flow below 10,500 (actually below 10,500 rpm flow rate is (rpm)(.009) + 5.5 kg/hr). Thermal efficiency will be critical; everyone will be using the same amount of fuel, regulated by an FIA flow meter, but some will use if better. It seems pretty early days to be guessing who will be the most powerful, as we have no data.

          • Talking about the reliability at Ferrari compared to other F1 teams this last 15 or so years where Ferrari easily comes out on top.

          • Yes that has been something they seem to have put at the forefront strategically, would be interesting to see the actual numbers comparison.

            Next year might be an exception all the way round with the new regs. Going to be exciting.

          • SteveH,

            The engine is built by AMG Mercedes High Performance Powertrains. It once started out being Illmor, but has been bought by Daimler-Benz a long time ago. Mario Illien re-founded Ilmor as a new company afterwards

          • Yeah, I know about Ilmor. I was just making a point about engine branding. The Chevy Indy engine was an Ilmor, IIRC, and we have seen lots of brand badges on engines that didn’t mean anything except some company was willing to pay to have valve covers cast.

          • The Merc Engine IS a true Merc though. In 2005 Mercedes bought the F1 design and production departments and since then Mercedes AMG High Perfomance Powertrains is a 100% subsidy of the Daimler AG.
            The rest of the engine works (Indy, bike engines etc.) were sold to Mario Illien. So effectively since 2007 the Merc engines have been true Mercs as they were no longer designed by Mario Ilien.

  2. “According to Mercedes the increased power characteristics, rumoured to be c850hp in qualifying trim with torque 600nm, requires wider rear tires.”

    In qualifying trim? What exactly does that mean. Unlike during the 1980’s when turbo engines were set-up for qualifying by using engines with different turbo-chargers from what they would use in the race, higher boost settings, different waste-gate setting, lighter pistons / crankshafts, etc. None of that is allowed today. There is no boost button and fuel flow rates are the same for both qualifying and race. The ERS settings, both for harvesting energy and the max output are also the same for both qualifying and race.

    So how exactly does a 2014 spec engine differ from qualifying to race?

      • The engine map you use in qualifying is the same as the one you use in the race, just like today.

    • I have been snickering since I first read “in quali trim” about 2 weeks ago 🙂
      and 100 hp more with a given regulated energy source and capacity would seem inconceivable. we are not exactly talking about an unfunded independant Judd (as in another series) when comparing to the might of Ferrari and Renault…

      • Yes, but there will be no need to conserve fuel, which means running the engine to the limit of fuel flow the entire lap, which will certainly not be the case during the race.

        • Which is what they already do today and have done since fuel limit requirements were put in place.

          • Yes and what I am suggesting is that what the person who wrote the article meant (yes, supposition on my part but I am trying to get at the meaning of the words rather than arguing about what the proper words are) is that during qualifying you would see the engines maxing out around those numbers, but in the race you likely wouldn’t due to fuel conservation strategies. I would also note that different fuel maps are not an area of controversy unlike different ECU maps, and that if you looked at actual vs. potential horsepower during racing and qualifying you would likely already see similar differentials.

            Also, is it possible that the psi for the turbo might be lowered for race vs. qualifying? Genuine question, and I’m not in an easy place to look up regs. I know there is a maximum, but I’m not sure if it has to stay fixed for parc ferme.

    • Race it all out for qualifying and tone it down for race because of fuel consumption.

  3. It’s definitively NOT a denial from Ferrari, and I don’t think you should write it as such.
    In fact, it’s as good as saying the deal is done: they’re NOT interested in the driver market if they already have kimi’s signature, so they’re not even lying…

  4. The ‘right now’ comment can only be read one way. KImi deal is done we need not look any further in the driver market presently.

  5. Pingback: Daily #F1 News and Comment: 20 August 2013 | thejudge13·

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