Daily News and F1 Comment: Wednesday 7th October, 2015

 

McLaren has made a big step forward

Button likes what Podromou has done at McLaren this year.

“You can probably see his influence with the way the car looks and the way the ride height is with the car,” Button told ESPN. “Prod is coming in at a very difficult time and if he’d came in two years ago then last year would have been a lot more competitive. Now it’s very difficult to see how we have improved with the car balance and its speed, but it’s definitely there.”

Praise indeed from the man who’s future with the team and indeed F1, was very much in question not so long ago. That said, Jenson is now intimating he’ll be around in F1 for 2017 given the chance.

“The guys back at the factory are working harder than ever to improve, in terms of aerodynamics and taking weight out of areas of the car that are quite heavy, so I personally feel there are more new parts coming onto the car than ever before.”

Always popular with the team, Button seems to relish all the new bits and pieces on his MP4-30 but admits….

“I think there is a good atmosphere in terms of seeing improvement on the car, which is important for them to feel that they are needed, but it also still hurts when you finish a race a lap and a half down. But we all go through it together and we’ve all got to help each other through these difficult times.”

Yet all is not well at McLaren and the question is how long both drivers will continue to tow the party line. Here’s what Fernando has to say…

espn.co.uk

 

Alonso makes the big 250th GP

Russian GP will be a landmark race for Fernando as it’s his 250th race in F1. Makes you wonder if he left out a crucial numerical digit after ‘GP’ 😉

Although Sochi will be his 250th race, technically there is an argument for this coming GP to be only his 248th start. Can anyone tell the court why?

 

Horner convinced Renault are 2 to 3 years behind AND their public spat hasn’t put off manufacturers supplying Red Bull

Christian spoke to Sky Sports about the recent ‘letter of intent’ given to the court regarding the purchase of Lotus.

“There’s really only two engines out there that you can compete for grand prix victories with and, unfortunately, Renault have fallen behind that. It looks like it’s going to be at least two to three years before they can be in a position to compete again.

As a paying customer, we can’t afford to wait that long.”

In essence he doesn’t believe Lotus will be at the pointy end if Renault go through with their acquisition.

Also Spice Boy Horner doesn’t believe Red Bull’s public spat with Renault will have dissuaded alternative suppliers from bailing them out.

“I doubt it. Perhaps we have been guilty of being honest, whether that is my comments or Adrian Newey’s comments or Helmut Marko’s or most important of all Dietrich [Mateschitz]’s as he is paying the bill at the end of the day.

I don’t believe that would have an impact on influencing any other supplier.”

When we consider the very real possibility that Red Bull will be eating a very massive slice of PU humble pie soon, this episode will make for interesting retrospective reading in the coming weeks!

Skysports.com

 

Honda misery set to continue into 2016

Screen Shot 2015-10-06 at 21.00.16

‘Don’t expect anything more from Honda this year,’ was the message going out post-Japan following Fernando Alonso’s incendiary radio remarks about his “GP2 engine”.

And Honda has finally admitted there will be no GP wins or big step-changes in performance this year.

The problem is, the Honda turbo compressor is too small – part of that ‘size zero’ concept – and cannot be made to run fast enough to compensate in terms of creating enough heat to give the ERS-H something to work with.

But whether the Japanese manufacturer can make a breakthrough in this area next season depends on what happens with the engine homologation regulations. As we know, the FIA can be pretty wooly on such matters and probably haven’t yet decided amongst themsleves.

However, as things currently stand, the engine token system reverts in 2016 to how it was in 2014. i.e. tokens cannot be spent during the season. The engine should be homologated by the 28th February.

If the new Honda compressor – on which the whole competitiveness of the engine essentially relies – is not ready in time for the homologation date, then McLaren-Honda potentially faces another full season of woeful performance with the current inadequately-dimensioned compressor design.

MacHonda did attempt to deliver an engine/chassis combination design based around a tiny rear end. Of all the 2015 cars, it is without doubt the most tightly packaged of all in this area.

This of course creates the potential for a significant aerodynamic advantage. The more tightly-waisted that coke bottle profile of the lower bodywork can be made, the faster the air will be induced into passing over the downforce-generating devices at the back of the car.

Also, the faster the air over the ‘brake ducts’ and inside the rear tyres, over the top of the diffuser (drawing harder on the air coming through the diffuser), the more downforce will be created.

So clearly, the most obvious route to miniaturisation of the whole engine/turbo package was to make the compressor smaller.

What is interesting is that like Mercedes, Honda opted to split the turbine from the compressor but stopped short of moving the compressor to the very front of the engine, where the Merc unit resides. Instead, it was made small enough to sit within the vee of the engine. This necessarily limited its power-producing – and therefore heat-generating – potential, but only if it ran at the same speed as a conventional compressor.

Honda was confident it could spin the turbine and compressor and the shaft that links them at speeds well in excess of 130,000rpm. And at this speed, the PU produces comparable power and heat to the bigger conventional compressors in the other engines turning at less than 120,000rpm.

The philosophy of MacHonda was to have their cake and eat it, with a smaller size unit – but comparable power.

Whilst a good idea, this concept predicated Honda being able to achieve something that no-one else had yet succeeded in doing.

The reality has been that to run the turbo at the speeds required to achieve comparable power to others running at lower speeds, the turbine/compressor either destroyed itself or the ERS-H unit which sits between the turbine and compressor.

Honda have subsequently discovered to achieve a modicum of reliability, they have had to run the turbo at speeds no higher than those of a more conventionally-sized unit.

Motorsportmagazine.com

Is F1 losing its soul?

“There’s an old song called ‘You Don’t Know What You’ve Got (Until You Lose It)’. The warning signs are there,” says Allan McNish

bbc.co.uk

“All investments that were not deemed absolutely necessary would be abandoned or delayed”

These are the words of VW’s Matthias Mueller whilst being interviewed by German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.

One can’t help but feel this could include the two team WEC program next year. If this were to be the case, there would be even less options for disgruntled F1 drivers.

bbc.co.uk

Will RoGro miss his Lotus?

He may find the silky smooth Ferrari PU in the Haas car a little less grunty than his Mercedes from this year.

 

Have you subscribed to TJ13tv yet?

Here’s a taster of what you can watch when you’re subscribed

“I had to drive with only one eye open as the camera was blocking my other eye, quite tricky” di Grassi

Advertisements

24 responses to “Daily News and F1 Comment: Wednesday 7th October, 2015

  1. “Honda was confident it could spin the turbine and compressor and the shaft that links them at speeds well in excess of 130,000rpm. And at this speed, the PU produces comparable power and heat to the bigger conventional compressors in the other engines turning at less than 120,000rpm.”….

    Does the regulations not limit that to 125k?

    • Conventional materials just don’t cut it at those speeds. Of course there are metal ceramics that can do the job but those are deemed exotic by the FIA and are banned.

      It sounds like Honda has a race against time to correct it’s design mistakes. Though if they have a fix and can’t use it then it may make other manufacturers decide to pass on F1 as they won’t want the bad PR.
      I do think the Honda power unit has the ability to compete with Mercedes it’s just a question of Honda overcoming the significant design issues.

      • Don’t quote me but I thought exotic materials are allowed if not part of the ICE in an effort to expand the tech possibilities in that area

        • I think you’re correct. WTF1 pointed this out to me awhile back and it stemmed from back in the late to early 2000’s.

          McLaren/Mercedes had to change their engine block when it was vetoed by Ferrari. Apparently they ruled that the materials had a side effect which could cause cancer.

          If he’s reading this, he’ll be able to explain further.

        • It’s a rule from 2006 “Reciprocating and rotating components cannot be manufactured from a graphitic matrix, metal matrix composites or ceramic materials.” It’s apparently one of the reasons as to why Mercedes doesn’t spin it’s Turbo at the full speed permitted in the regulations as the materials used just can’t cope with the forces involved. It’s a rule that probably needs to be scrapped given the possibilities those materials give to engineers working in F1.

    • As far as I know the MGUH’s max is 125kRPM, not sure the turbo and copressor must be under 125kRPM (they just need to be a fixed ratio vs the MGUH)

  2. Autosport published an article saying that Toto Wolff/Merc is excited by the idea of 3car teams, while last year they were so against it due to costs. And a few weeks back, they wanted to help renault get their PU up to speed when earlier they didn’t want to blow up the token system for PU parity. What’s going on in Merc-land?

  3. Ummm……… “…in terms of creating enough heat ,…”. The turbo extracts heat from the exhaust stream and turns it into rotational energy. You’ve got it backwards.

    • Indeed.
      I’ve long been baffled by the relationship between the various functions of the turbo system and its associated ERS-H system and this piece does nothing to clarify the matter. Surely running the turbo at higher rotational speeds is done in order to increase (or in this case if the above is accurate, match) inlet boost pressure. It’s never been clear to me how the heat exchanger system somewhere in the rat’s-nest generates electricity. The idea that the system isn’t capable of generating sufficient heat (!) in a system where dissipating heat is the biggest problem, is more than somewhat counter-intuitive.
      This aside, am I alone in feeling that TJ13 is starting to run out of boost pressure? Or maybe insufficient heat is being generated out there.

      • From a pysics point of view heat is energy. Both are measured in Joule and when talking about recovering the energy from the exhaust in an MGU one can say heat energy is converted to electrical energy, but it’s stretching the meaning of the words. In exhaust there’s not only the heat energy, you have the kinectic energy of the exhaust gasses and the sonic fronts of the blow-by – F1 turbos must make their damdest to recover energy from all of them.

        And to further clarify why higher speed at iso-power means smaller compressor – one needs at each cylinder filling a certain massflow of air; make a smaller compressor that turns quicker, you’d have the same massflow as a bigger turbo at lower speed; albeit the smaller compressor would create higher speed flows, thus be more sensitive to airduct shape. If one is forced to use the high speed turbine at low speed, not only it can’t provide adequate massflow (so bad cylinder filling and power loss), but it is less efficient too as the compressor is designed for max efficiency at a certain massflow, anything above/below will be worse. It is inherently difficult to have a robust compressor design against the variation in air massflow.

        • Yes, the turbo map has to fit the use. I have a turbo design book that has many turbo maps; it’s not an easy task to fit the correct turbo, and with the added complexity of the generating unit and driving the turbo it becomes a true scramble. I wonder how powerful the turbo charged internal combustion engine could actually be. Wasn’t the fuel limit back in the previous turbo era eventually reduced to 150L? Maybe F1 should just get rid of the whole electrical part and run a straight turbo engine with that sort of fuel limitation.

    • Indeed. I’ve long been baffled by the relationship between the various functions of the turbo system and its associated ERS-H system. Surely running the turbo at higher rotational speeds is done in order to increase (or in this case if the above is accurate, match) inlet boost pressure. It’s never been clear to me how the heat exchanger system somewhere in this rat’s-nest generates electricity. The idea that this configuration isn’t capable of generating sufficient heat (!) in a system where dissipating heat is the biggest problem, is more than somewhat counter-intuitive.
      This aside, am I alone in feeling that TJ13 is starting to run out of boost pressure? Or maybe insufficient heat is being generated out there.

      • The heat exchanger does not generate electricity. The two motor generator units ( MGU) do that.
        One is on the engine and generates under breaking, the other is on the turbo and generates when the gas flow would allow the turbo to make more input air the the engine needs at that time.

        • One is on the engine and generates under breaking.. I thought we had got rid of this breaking thing..Guess not!

      • Basically, when you reduce the velocity of a gas stream you increase the pressure. The exhaust side of the turbo slows the gas flow, thus increasing the pressure of the gas, which then rotates the turbine wheel. The heat energy is converted to rotational kinetic energy that then compresses the incoming engine air with a turbine wheel; effectively the opposite action.

        When the intake air is compressed it gets hotter because of the P1/T1 = P2/T2 relationship, or, rearranging, T2 = ((P2)(T1))/P1 where P1 is initial pressure, P2 is final pressure, T1 is initial temperature (°K) and T2 is final temperature. Which is charge air intercoolers are needed.

  4. It won’t take long before McLaren actually take the Red Bull way of doing things. Don’t care about what JB the snake has to say, the car is still nowhere and by the looks of it it will be near the back-end of the field for the next few years. If by this time next year McHonda are still nowhere, expect the toys to come flying out of the paddock and the rhetoric to become closer to Red Bull’s.

    Very interesting piece on why the Honda PU is so down on pure power. So basically because the compressor is too small and cannot be run at speeds higher than that of a conventionally-sized compressor, they are never going to get any of the benefits of down-sizing the compressor in the first place… I don’t know if Mercedes / Ferrari have already tried going down this route and found out whether it’s a blind alley or not but this could give them ideas. This season, the most notable gains have been found through better chemistry combinations of the PU and the fuel they’re using, perhaps not all gains have been discovered in that direction yet.

    • Ferrari had a small compressor last year too I believe, which is why they wasn’t able to maximize the ERS.

  5. Sign me up for TJ13 TV!
    It’s been too long since a piece of F1 footage has made me nervously laugh out loud.
    Spa. In the wet. With one eye closed.
    Hehe!

  6. The person who produced the section on Honda is a technological moron. The turbo system is not there to “generate heat” it’s there to take the wast heat in the exhaust gas and turn it in to a mixture of compressed air to feed to the engine and electrical power to feed eith to the Bat pax or into the drive train. The only heat “generated” come from compressing the input air. This heat is bad heat as it has to re removed by a drag producing inter cooler.

    On of the aims of the game is to get as much useful work out of the exhaust gas.

    • Perhaps you should click on the article link at the bottom and head over to motorsportmagazine.com for further reading and/or make a complaint from the TJ13 community 🙂

      • I have now had a look at the original article. I have to hay it makes a lot more since than the badly butchered version shown above.

  7. Holy sh*t!!!!!!! That de Grassi video was fantastic!!!!!! All FOM has to do is put stuff like that on TV and they will have an audience!! I could watch that stuff all day. That is what we need. Including the revs. And the sound.

Leave a Reply