26 responses to “Haas won’t hold onto Grosjean | DN&C 26/04/16”

1. Re the Mercedes power unit that broke in China. As far as I know no repairs or repairs by the replacement of parts are permitted of any of the six components that makes-up the power unit, I cannot understand how it is said that oil pumps has been replaced.

   • Because the oil pump is not part of the 6 components that make up the PU.

     Also you can’t repair any of the 6 components if they’re broken, they can only be replaced. I think in this case, when they say “repair”, they’ve gone ahead and replaced the damaged components. The ICE itself was fine.

     • the oil pumps (pressure and scavenge) are part/s of the ICE, the ICE being part of the six components that makes-up the power unit, cannot be repaired, not even put back into service by replacing parts.

       • another example of what can and cannot be done is, Mercedes said that the problem with the China engine was faulty insulation windings of the MGU-H, and that they replaced MGU-H and TURBO, they did not replace the insulation and or windings of the MGU-H. note that these two parts (TURBO and MGU-H) constitutes two different components of the six that makes-up the power unit.

       • If you read the rules on what makes up the PU, oil pump is not listed in those 6 major components.

         As per the article….

         “The sport’s dominant team said in a statement that a thorough investigation had been carried out at the factory last week with the energy recovery system stripped down.

         “The issue is suspected to be associated with the insulation. The turbocharger will be replaced in addition to the oil pumps, after debris was found in the oil system,”

         They carried out no repairs to any of the components, rather replaced the damaged components. An oil pump is not listed as a part that needs to have the same life cycle as the the other components, even though it’s attached to the ICE.

         • I maintain that oil pumps (pressure and scavenge) are as part of the ICE as all other parts that makes-up the ICE, crankshaft, bearings, con-rods, valves ect, by replacing damaged parts they are effecting a repair, any of the six component that makes-up the power unit cannot be repaired.

         • Well maintain all you want, the rules says otherwise. Or are you implying that Mercedes are somehow circumventing the rules and the FIA are turning a blind eye?

           Simply put, from once no repairs or replacement of any part within the ICE itself (valves, pistons, crankshafts etc), then no rules have been broken

         • in no way am I am implying that that Mercedes are in any way circumventing the rules or that the FIA are turning a blind eye, all I am doing is quoting FIA sporting regulations articles 1.22, 5.3.4, 5.4.1, 5.4.2, 5.22, appendix 2 parts listed “EXC” “all power unit coolant pumps, oil pumps, scavenge pumps, oil air separator and fuel high pressure pumps, power unit, the internal combustion engine , complete with its ancillaries, and energy recovery system and all actuation system necessary to make them function at all time. the technical regulations, replacing power unit parts appendix 2 ice oil pumps are marked “EXC” (included).
           We all know how reliable quoting others is, just on one of the above subjects Fred Turk of Mahle was quoted as saying that FERRARI are using their JET IGNITER system on their formula one engine when he said nothing of the sort, refer to Stuttgart march 15 2016 Mahle expands cooperation with scuderea FERRARI, press release pdf 38 kb.

         • Presumably the components are therefore changed on each teams used power units between race weekends if that is allowed then? That sort of makes a bit of a mockery on the cost saving agenda really.

2. The so called “Jet ignition” use in formula one.
   This latest “speculations race” has started yesterday between two friends but pole position was won back in 2014 start of season by the so called spark plug man.
   The race started off by first claiming HCCI was being used, something that at the present configuration is not compatible with FIA rules as the system needs the use of VVT.
   After the start the speculation race turned to claiming TJI (Mahle system) is being used, again technically speaking TJI is not compatible with FIA rules as the system uses a pre-combustion system where the fuel or part of it is injected, this system renders the fuel system as an indirect injection system.

3. must correct my mistake in calling the “Mahle jet igniter system” (TJI) it should have read (JTI). my excuse for that slip.

4. I’m thinking Grosjean is a solid teir 2 driver, capable of. WDC if the stars align – team / team mate / car / luck. Button.

   The Hulk. Perez. I had Rosberg in that pile too until this year. I’ll reserve judgement on his rebirth until he has to bang wheels with Lewis in a few races.

   Romain would make a great Barrichello / Massa redux at Ferrari if they think Seb is Schumi / Alonso and the 1-2 driver thing was still in vogue. I’m not sure that’s the case with the new management at the red team though.

   • I agree, that’s where I see Grosjean too (and like you, I’m reserving judgement on Nico).

     I think Grosjean got incredibly bad press when he first joined F1 for some incidents that really weren’t his doing, it’s taken a long time for many folks to see how good he is.

   • Poor Nico will never win!

     If he was beat by Schumacher – well, Nico is a second tier driver
     If he beat Schumacher – well, Schuey is past his peak, just an old man now, has lost his hunger
     If he loses to Lewis – well, Nico is a second tier driver
     If he beats Lewis – well, Lewis is not that great really, beaten but a second tier driver OR Lewis had bad luck (depending on what applies)

     I think Nico is a top 5 driver along with Lewis, Seb, Ric and Alonso. His speed and accomplishments should be acknowledged more and by the same measure Lewis’ too.

     • I think its not what applies but who says it. A hamifosi or any other

       • Precisely! That’s what I typed at the beginning but then changed it…

         • Never change anything. First thoughts are always the best 😉

     • I’m not sure anyone REALLY thinks that Lewis is “not that great”. I think most of the gnashing of teeth around these here parts is more a comment on the tiresome “Lewis can do no wrong” circus that surrounds his every utterance / movement.

       One might say that Lewis is not responsible for how the media reacts to his life, but neither does he do anything to calm the farm.

       As for Nico, my assessment is more of a gut feel thing based on just watching him race rather than any attempt to measure him against team mates or to even consider his race results. I just haven’t seen the moves from him that Lewis or Seb or Fred or Dan R show or have shown on a regular basis.

       • I agree with you about Nico, hence I said he’s a top 5 and not a top 3 or even a top 4. In my book, he’s still better than Webber and Button, not a clear tier 2 driver, not a clear tier 1 driver, somewhere in between maybe.

         • I’d have Nico currently ranked about on the same level as Webber. Button fractionally above that. Just out curiosity, what for you elevates him above Jenson? I look at JB and see a guy who performed very equally with Lewis over three years in terms of race results, and put in many good performances for BAR/Honda. Nico, his finest moments for me came during his time at Williams and the last 9 or so races we’ve had.

         • Well, we’re splitting hair here actually, I think Nico is faster than Button, but Button has a better race-craft. I guess I rate Nico higher because he had Schumacher and a more mature Hamilton as team-mates plus he’s younger and hence by the time he retires he might have achieved even more than now. I know it’s premature to judge them prior to end of their career and if Button does go toe-to-toe with Alonso in a competitive McLaren, my opinion will certainly change.

5. Paul, “presumably the components are therefore changed on each teams power unit between each race weekend if that is allowed then” Paul, there should be no doubt about that.

6. John Booth, formerly team principal of Manor, has joined the Toro Rosso as director of racing.

   Also, there’s been a failure to agree to 2017 engine regs – again. These people are just… never mind.

   @WTF_F1

   • not agreeing to 2017 “new” engine rules halfway through the life of said engine rules formula gives both the spiceman and the good doctor some more scope to scream some more into MR F1 ears.

7. Re the “race between friends” called HCCI/JTI ignition of which pole position was won in 2014 by the spark plug man, somebody just told me that an agreement has now been reached between these men that FERRARI are now going to introduce in Russia an engine combustion upgrade with numbers 2,4 and 6 cylinders using HCCI type combustion and cylinder numbers 1,3 and 5 using the JTI type of combustion.
   Joking apart, may I ask these racing men why would it now be claimed that FERRARI would spend three of their few remaining tokens in Russia introducing their new combustion upgrade when it was claimed that the Mahle JTI system was used by them since last year in Canada?.
   anyhow the following might interest some, its in Italian, but with a bit of effort it (the numbers) can be understood. it is about the FERRARI engine upgrades intended introductions, their rotational use and projected mileage, in short the way they intends to handle/use their allocated engines, it can be read on, funnanalistitechica ice Ferrari: con una buona rotazione non si dourebbe incorrere in pealita.

8. the last word should have read (penalita/penalty).

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