One thing is for certain, it will either end in tears or Max Verstappen will force his way to the top of the F1 driver pile – and either outcome could come fairly swiftly.
Having apparently looked rather a numpty at the Monaco 2015 GP for attempting a Webber-esque move (Kovalainen 2010, Valencia) on Romain Grosjean, and ending up face planted in the barrier at St Devote – Verstappen is not taking matters lying down.
The race stewards awarded the Dutch warrior a 5 place grid penalty and stamped 2 penalty points on his F1 super license, for what could be considered as an attempt to mount the French driver – from the rear – at speed.
However, Max is unrepentant.
He took to social media platform Instagram to vent his feelings tonight.
“Was an eventful race last week, showed good pace during the race with some overtaking in Monaco!
“After an unlucky pitstop I was charging through the field before I got brake tested and had a hard crash into turn1!
“Anyway those things happen and will make me stronger!
“Next time we will get those points we deserved… Even though we have a penalty. I know what to do for the upcoming races… (winky smiley faces in abundance #F1)”
Now what could young Max possibly mean?
It’s ironic Max Verstappen is receiving the criticism he is, following his collision with the man who almost decapitated Fernando Alonso and is the last driver to receive a full race ban in Formula One.
The FIA presumably ruled out the possibility that Grosjean ‘brake tested’ Verstappen from the telemetry.
However, Max raises an interesting dilemma.
The new Formula One V6 hybrid engines with their harvesting systems, can retard the speed of the cars far more quickly than an old fashioned ‘lift’ of the accelerator would deliver.
In the future, the FIA may need to consider this fact when the accusation of a ‘brake test’ has been made.
Further, Lewis Hamilton may be afforded some relief as the focus of media attention shifts from his frequent chinnanagins, toward the young Dutch driver; who looks as though he intends to take the F1 world by storm.
And that’s the danger of having a 17 years old kid in F1 supported by a company that doesn’t give a s**t about anything but themselves. He probably really thinks he is immortal or the reincarnation of Senna or that they “gave him wings”. He won’t take any responsibility for his actions, and because he wasn’t hurt he didn’t learn anything. Lets hope he doesn’t kill anybody.
Mate you better run for cover, the Borg hoard will be descending on you like a great white that smells blood in the water.
You better send out a distress signal to Starfleet command WTF_F1…..
Resistance is futile….
@Fortis96 @JaunRamos I extend my shields around your brave little comment,together we can stem the invasion.
After having a slap on the wrist,the last thing a young driver should do is then go out into the social media and blame another for a brake test! That is a bloody serious accusation that will have some comeback pretty soon.
The ‘wonder kid’ is quickly becoming a wonder mouth, I hate to do this to the 90% of teens that do have a brain but its an age thing! He just can’t accept blame in any way,there is just no way he would have made that pass,he came in too quick,lost traction on that little bump and unsettled the car,Roman had knackered brakes and tires so he is going to brake early..there is even a huge flashing red light to tell you the car is harvesting power during braking,maybe he thought it was a rave and was looking for the next coffee shop but instead of learning from this,holding up his hands and excepting some blame he goes on the attack. The other drivers won’t like this and neither will MrE,I give the kid a year before his head either explodes from all the hype or he grows up and plays nice in an adult world..I do believe that his pops was the same,just have a google search on the chap and makeup your own mind.
Seems like they’ve assimilated Mika into the collective… He’s now saying that the penalty was unfair. I’m wondering if he said the same about Jenson’
Sounds like Felipe Massa took the stage to give some of his thaughts. It’s very funny to read some heavy stuff from this Williams-driver who – just like Grosejean – wrecked countless cars and is wining all the times it’s someone elses fault. Verstappen is a fair young driver who takes the blame when he is to blame. The crash in this years Monaco GP is a normal race-accident. No more, no less.
If drivers aren’t allowed to use his age when criticising him, then why are The Borg allowed to use it to defend him?
Should he not just be viewed as Max Verstappen F1 racing driver?
As a Dutchmen I won’t even try to defend Max, my view is clearly not objective.
My opinion however is that the FIA shouldn’t hand out penalties so easily. Fans around the world want close racing, and with close racing there always is a risk that something goes wrong and you crash out of the race.
As it stands almost every (attempted) overtake in Monaco was investigated by the FIA. They should stop doing that, and just let these guys race.
Max still made no mistakes….everyone could see Grosjean gave him a breaktest. There are “experienced” drivers out there who make alot more mistakes then this young boy.
You have to like his spirit…never give up…..and if you dont, then i think you need to keep supporting your heroes Massa, Nasr or Sainz
“everyone could see Grosjean gave him a breaktest”
Clearly the stewards didn’t see Romain brake-testing poor Max….
And you forget that St Devote is a tricky, f*cked up corner, and taking it at speed always represents taking a significant risk. My point being: if the car feels even a little bit twitchy, you may need to brake (or lift) that little bit earlier than usual to make sure you don’t end up in the barriers (just ask Nico), and Romain was entitled to doing that.
Unless there is clear evidence of Romain brake-testing poor young Max, and according to the stewards there isn’t, it was Max’ responsibility to ensure that they didn’t end up sharing the same piece of asphalt… Max didn’t.
Actually I can’t blame Grosjean, whit a team mate named Maldona.
How can you say he made no mistake? He drove into the back of another car!
So you’re out for a leisurely drive one beautiful Sunday afternoon and someone rear ends you. You come out of your car only to see the car in question is being driven by a young whippersnapper, are you going to say it wasn’t his fault?
I wonder if the stewards ever looked at GPS data or simply stuck with the brake data. F1 cars going off throttle decelerate hard enough as is.
Not to mention grosjean took the middle of the road doing it. In the end should have taking a little more caution.
Last thing to Note is that MV is a sober (dont know the right englosh term) kid with a different opinion on the crash. Dont assume he is arrogant because he is 17.
@juan
Stop hating..
F1 would need to get rid of crash test dummies like maldonado before verstappen.
Why should Grosean have taken a little more caution, he was the one in front, he wasn’t trying to overtake anyone. And Matt said it before and so have many others, it’s the responsibility of the driver doing the overtake to make sure it’s done safely.
You also said, “he placed his car in the middle of the road”…
What should he have done? Pull to the side of the track and just allowed him to pass unabated? If that’s the case then everyone should just pull to the side the moment Max is in the rear view mirror….
Read my post below, I meant Verstappen.:p
“What should he have done? ”
Indeed. 🙂
I remember Kimi in Hungaroring 2013 in his Lotus in front of Seb in his RB, on the last lap Seb was on the offensive and Kimi just stuck his rear in the middle of the road (I think it was T2) with an emphatic “no way Jose” message. Kimi finished in front of Seb, and Seb was fuming after the race, to which Kimi… shrugged. And smiled. That defence was ball, and Grosjean’s defence in Monaco was much less robust than what Kimi did that day, and there was no accident then.
Fortis96, really? Max didn’t do an overtake. He just follow on a short distance to force Grosjean making a fold. He just try to avoid him at the last moment.
Check again mate, I did not say that…..
you just right, you missed that.
[quote] And Matt said it before and so have many others, it’s the responsibility of the driver doing the overtake to make sure it’s done safely. [end quote]
I’m with you on this but others are taking the view that any attempt to pass must have a way to bail out if it goes wrong. In Monaco that basically means no overtaking and is also why there are rules such as only one change of direction.
I’d actually like to see comparative video from this lap and previous laps. I got the impression on TV that Roman slowed a lot sooner on this lap than I – and Max! – was expecting.
In the end Verstappen should have taken more caution.*
D*mn smartphones.
@Fortis
The borg doesn’t respond to shallow posts filled with presumptions about age and (mis)fortune telling. 🙂 Juan forgets to mention the 30 year olds with decades of experience “trying to kill other people” (Maldonado, Perez, Grosjean)
“@juan
Stop hating..
F1 would need to get rid of crash test dummies like maldonado before Verstappen”
That to me seems like the Borg’s are responding to shallow post filled with presumptions and what not…😉😉
Grosjean is allowed to take the middle of the road… so that’s not a good argument. Fact is verstappen hit him from behind. So he is in fault.
Why is everyone blaming Grosean for the accident? Max was warned a few laps before that Grosean was having brake problems, it was for him to be more vigilant with his overtake, he wasn’t. Max miscalculated his closing speed which caused the accident.
Grosean may have had his fair share of indiscretions in past, but I seriously doubt that he’d deliberately brake test another driver. So are you all going to say it was Pastor’ fault when Max did the same to him during the opening phase of the race? I mean Pastor also had brake problems, did he brake test him too?
Just put it down to youthful exuberance and move on….
Btw… If he’s not willing to accept that he played a role in the crash, then he is being arrogant.
“grosjean took the middle of the road” and held his line as he should have. Max goofed. Period.
Sure its Max’s fault in the end. He was to aggressive, which originated with the botched pitstop and the extra stop for supersofts.
Was the botched pitstop not a result of Max running into the back of Pastor and damaging his front wing?
Nope, they did not change front wings in that first stop. The delay had something to do with the rear wheel gunner and it took 20 bloody seconds. Nearly identical to sainz in Australia.
Braking news
Did anyone actually review the data from Grosjean’s car in detail? It should be pretty trivial to see if Grosjean lifted off the gas and yet didn’t brake for some time. That would be abnormal racing behavior and thus likely an actual ‘brake test.’
What you describe sounds more like “lift and coast”, and it seems drivers make plenty use of this this year (e.g. Perez instructed to do so in Monaco). Little abnormal there…
If Grosjean had immediately hit the brakes after lifting he would have slowed much faster than if he just lifted. Either way, what’s the point? Both ‘penalties’ were deserved. Max misjudged his capabilities and learned a valuable ‘lesson’. We hope!!!
“If Grosjean had immediately hit the brakes after lifting he would have slowed much faster than if he just lifted.”
On a straight and with a car right behind you on full throttle, lifting will make the other car rear-end you before you have time to say… Max.
Only if he’s too close. “lifting will make the other car rear-end you” and ‘braking’ will make it happen faster. This horse has been flogged to death two days ago. Time to bury the poor creature, or at least turn it into glue. When I pass a car I do it to the side, not right up over it’s rump.
I don’t know the full detail but isn’t the rain warning light supposed to flash to warn following drivers when energy harvesting such as this happens? Did this happen? Or have I misunderstood the rule?
The light flashes to warn the drivers behind that they’re harvesting energy….
So, I guess we can infer that if Romain lifted rather than braked this light should have illuminated? Although of course at those speeds and gaps Max wouldn’t have time to respond anyway.
I believe that Grosjean has said in interviews that the data shows that he braked 5 meters LATER on the “crash lap” than the one before. I don’t know if this has been confirmed independently, however…but it would be fairly easy to check.
That would actually be consistent with a large slowdown before the corner due to lifting off the gas and harvesting energy. Then you reach the corner at a slower speed and brake later.
It could still be considered a brake test…
I wouldn’t be surprised if Grosjean did “lift and coast” and as a result Max was tricked into thinking Grosjean braked earlier. I still believe Max should have had more space between him and Grosjean because lift and coast is a driving technique that is common and therefor something a driver should anticipate. I must say that if Grosjean was using the “lift and coast” technique the punishment Max got was a bit harsh, judging it as a race incident would in that case be more appropriate.
Not even that.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119187
“Romain Grosjean didn’t brake test Max Verstappen. He braked five metres later than previous lap. Data accepted by the FIA so the penalty was for Max not RG.
“The FIA have all the information and they were very happy with RG’s driving.”
Braking yes but that doesn’t say anything about lifting 😉 (my argument is that Grosjean could have tricked Max into thinking he braked earlier because he lifted earlier, which consequently allowed him to brake later)
Lifting equates to braking for these cars at the end of a straight. So the contact will probably have happened before “5m later than previous lap”.
But even if Romain did lift, it was still his right do so given his own car constraints (unless he did something reckless, which the stewards seem to have ruled out), and it was Max’ responsibility to make sure he wouldn’t rear-end the car in front because of high-speed/short-distance… All these theories might have been (lift-and-coast, test braking, etc.), but it seems like people are simply trying to find an argument for Romain to willingly wanted to force Max the Young to crash, which makes no sense to me.
The hard truth is that Max was driving rather aggressively that day (think petulant youthful exuberance), tailgated Vettel in a somewhat dangerous manner, and took a number of risks in a place that punishes risks quickly and effectively. He was clearly impatient to overtake Grosjean after the two overtakes facilitated by Vettel, and by the same token looked frustrated when Grosjean didn’t wave him through like the others did. He wanted through, took high risks, and gambled on high reward (and conversely high failure). We know how that ended…
If you’re still unconvinced, take a pause to reflect on this: in normal conditions, not a single car managed a clean overtake that day. Alonso smashed Hulk’s front wing, Danny boy found himself sandwiched between Kimi and the wall, and that’s pretty much it. Not even Hamilton who was faster than anyone else, including teammate Rosberg in same equipment, on fresh supersoft tyres, against Vettel in slower Ferrari and on shot tyres… Not even Hamilton could muster anything close to a passing move. Given the cars this year and the Monaco barriers, what chances did young padawan Max really have to pull off a clean overtake without ending up in the barriers?
As I said in my first comment I agree that Max should have left more room even if Grosjean lifted early. The more I think about it Grosjean lifting a bit earlier than the lap before looks more and more as the action that started it all. The deceleration from lifting earlier allowed him to also brake later. For the record I don’t think that was done with malicious intent, Grosjean had done nothing wrong. If Max had left more room he could have reacted and there would have been no problem, and therefore if fault must be awarded it should go to Max. But Grosjean lifting earlier also explains why Max said that he did not plan to overtake but it might have looked like he did. He was too slow to react with the brakes, given the space he left himself, and then tried to avoid it and by doing so destroyed his front suspension and crashed in the barrier. When looked at from this angle there is an argument to be made that, like what Hakinnen says, it should have been ruled as a racing incident. The stewards thought otherwise and gave him a 5 seconds penalty but because he couldn’t fulfill the penalty during the race it automatically converted into a 5 place grid penalty. It’s a bit harsh but I understand the reasoning and I therefore have no problems with this ruling.
Personally I like Max his attacking driving style because it reminds me of some of the past heroes like G. Villeneuve or some of the thrilling drives from Senna. But also of some of the early drives from Hamilton where he passed people left and right or how Kobayashi managed to overtake while others couldn’t. There was a buzz in the air whenever those guys were on track and doing those overtakes. Even that great 2011 Canada race where Button had to drive through the field twice was a race that had that such a buzz where you knew that what you was watching was going to be one of those races that people will talk about in the future because it was special. And I get the same feeling with some of Max his drives, you just know there is something going to happen while watching him. And off course mistakes are going to be made and some are bigger than others, But haven’t almost all great F1 drivers needed a period to settle in? Hamilton had a whole season where he made all sorts of mistakes, Vettel has done some things in his first season that got a lot of flack from his fellow drivers, even in that great race from Button he got a penalty for driving into others while overtaking and Senna and G. Villeneuve were constantly criticized for their risky driving styles. The point is that this aggressive and attacking driving style is for some too much and for some the reason to become a fan. Only in a year or maybe two will we know with more certainty if he’s more like Maldonado or more than a Hamilton 🙂
If the front car “lifts” the closing rate is longer for the rear car. If Grosjean had ‘braked’ Max would have run right over the top of RG, instead of just hitting his right rear wheel.
https://twitter.com/alanpermane/status/603632307203928065
All doubt is removed, no early braking and no early lifting. Max was wrong and fully deserves the penalty. Now Max has to ask himself why he thought that Grosjean braked/lifted earlier than he expected… I think the comfort of having more than enough grip on the super soft tires probably made him wrongly judge Grosjean’s expected braking point.
By being a racing driver you are under risk all the time. By being a racing driver means you are racing with other people. And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing, we are competing to win. And the main motivation to all of us is to compete for victory, it’s not to come 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th. I race to win as long as I feel it’s possible. Sometimes you get it wrong? Sure, it’s impossible to get it right all the time. But I race designed to win, as long as I feel I’m doing it right.
“if you no longer go for a gap that exists”
And what if you go for a gap that doesn’t exist?
There is no gap left if your front runner hit the breaks 2 ore 3 meters sooner than expected.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119187
Grosjean hit the ‘brakes’ and Mad Max got the ‘breaks’.
It is quite interesting to see that a lot of people apparantly without any other knowledge about formula 1 or racing in general other than what is shown on TV, have such strong opinions. I think the remarks from Wurz, Lammers and Hakkinen speaks for them selves.
Yeah like lammers isn’t talking pro verstappen as it is his fellow country man. For every so called specialist who is pro there can be found one who is contra..
Maybe you shouldn’t focus on his nationality but on his reasoning.
So far I’ve seen comments from Wurz, Lammers, Hakki, Nasr and Massa. For me the integrity of the first 3 mentioned is unquestioned. But ofcourse, everybody will do its own assessment.
MAx will teach those old farts what racing is, AGAIN, and again and again untill the End of Times!
“I know what to do for the upcoming races… (winky smiley faces in abundance #F1)”
Tweeting like a true 17 year-old. Hopefully he doesn’t tweet and drive or we will see many more of these, you know, “racing incidents”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFll609yPUM
Here’s a classic brake check. What was he thinking??!?! 🙂
I’m not on Twitter, but van anyone ask @Lotus about throttle, steering and speed for that corner?
Even (?) hakkinnen says ‘Max got treated harsh, Grosjean drove another line and slower’.
Alan Permane has tweeted that Grosjean lifted off 5m later and also braked 5m later than the previous lap…
https://twitter.com/alanpermane/status/603632307203928065
The driver in front has every right to drive and hold his line (which he did perfectly and without wavering), and brake, as is appropriate, at that moment.
Isn’t his father, Jos Verstappen, regarded as a bit of dick, with a reputation for temper tantrums? Perhaps the red mist is hereditary.