50 responses to “Day 10 #F1 2015 Winter Testing: Barcelona, Morning Report”

1. Times explains why the Merc/Ham negotiation is taking so long: apparently he’s asking a mere £50m p/a….

   • Well if the numbers for Seb and Fred are correct, then surely he’s entitled to ask for similar amounts, even the figure being quoted in the article seems absurd at best. He’s the face of the sport as well as the team and should be paid as such.

     • Why is Lewis the face of the sport? For many people that’s actually Alonso.
       The numbers bandied about are mere speculation anyway and as always it’s a case of supply and demand. Do they need to raise Lewis’ salary? No they don’t as there are others lined up, who ask less and would win the title just as well in that car.
       So this isn’t a case of what people think he deserves, it’s a case of what Merc is willing to spend – and that seems to be a lot less than Lewis wants.

       • Hippo, you may not want to admit it, but he is

         • Why? Because you say so? You may want to keep in mind that people select the “face of the sport” based on different criteria.

           Those of a shallow disposition might go for Susie or that girl Lotus have hired.

         • Like i said hippo, you wont admit that he is.

         • Because he isn’t. He might be for a big part of Britain. But he isn’t for the world…

     • And an other thing. Hamilton isn’t entitled to the amount of money vettel gets. Vettel has 4 titles. Hamilton 2. So he should only get half of the pay that vettel gets. If you go by your theory of whom deserves what. And as for alonso he has only 2 titles but he’s regarded as the best driver out there so he’s entitled to more money as hamilton aswell based on your theory. 😉

       • Alonso has 2, how much is he getting?

     • Smelling a rat here…..can you give an absolute assurance that you’re not Lewis’ manager 🙂

   • I hope Merc have a contract ready for Bottas.

     I like Lewis but £50m is ridic. Merc already gave him the best car.

     • And for that reason he should demand less than what he thinks he’s worth to the team? They didn’t give him the best car when he joined, it was all a gamble that paid off for both him and Mercedes, because there was no guarantees that they would’ve built such a dominant monster. Granted that the figure being quoted is absurd.

       • Do you really think Hamilton would have gone there without the belief / knowledge that the Merc was going to be as good as it was last year? They persuaded him to leave McLaren based on how good their 2014 engine was going to be, with the knowledge works teams have a huge advantage as well. Otherwise there’s no way he would have left for Mercedes. He jumped at the right time before everyone wanted to be in their car and it paid off for him.

         He’s going to have to take a pay cut because Mercedes know they’ll be out in front for another couple of years yet, with a car that they don’t need to pay somebody £50 pounds or whatever it is. If I was him I’d drive that car for them on a contract of a bag of crisps per race and a packet of dog food!

         Time will tell if money means more than success to Hamilton. I really hope it’s success.

         • *million* dammit!

         • That’s what Lewis said after reading Merc’s proposal…

         • What load of rubbish!!!!!

           Yes they convinced him to leave, but the fact still remains, for all their dyno testing and info, they could not guarantee 100% that they would have the best car, because for all we know, the Ferrari could’ve turned out to be the best car on the grid. They too are a works team and how did their package turned out? How many labelled him a fool for leaving probably the fastest car on the grid in 2012 for a poor under performing Mercedes team? And yes he would’ve left McLaren, are you forgetting his lunch date with Horner at the Canadian gp? Are you also forgetting that Mercedes approached Alonso at one point and he turned them down? It’s well documented that the relationship with McLaren had run its course and he wanted out.

           So because Mercedes has the best car, he should take a pay cut? Dude you’re a joke!

           So does that mean if Ferrari or McLaren manage to deliver dominate cars to their drivers, that they too should take a pay cut when it comes time to renew their contracts or would the be entitled to a pay rise?

         • Haha calm down my dear, you’re missing the point. He can obviously expect a certain large wage because he’s world champion and one of the best drivers on the grid, but Mercedes obviously don’t have to offer him that. They know it’s going to take a couple of years at least for the field to have closed up on them so why pay somebody a salary of a gillion Euro’s when I’m pretty sure Mr Blobby could win a race in one of their cars at the moment. It just doesn’t make any economical sense does it?
           If you took your Hamilton blinkers off it’s painly obvious to see that.

           As to your point about Ferrari possibly being the best on the grid, they could well have been, but there wasn’t a seat going there at that time, and even if there was Alonso would have vetoed the move, so your point is totally irrelevant.

           You’re telling me with all the CFD analysis of the cars and dyno testing these days they wouldn’t have been fairly certain they were onto a winner? Come off it, you’re clutching at straws now. They could have been fairly confident when wooing Hamilton that they would be providing him with a title challenging car, and that would have been good enough for him I imagine.

           Relating to your point about Ferrari or McLaren being in Mercedes position I’m fairly sure they could expect to be in strong position when it comes to driver negotiations also. It could also have been one of the reasons at the time Hamilton left, was because Ron Dennis was saying live on telly he would have to take a paycut, and guess what McLaren had the best car at the time. Obviously it went tits up after that but the sentiment still applies.

           Don’t forget F1 hasn’t seen this level of domination for decades, and I implore you to find any company on the planet that would throw money away as needlessly as Mercedes would be by offering Hamilton the mentioned amount of money. If you can come back at me with one, they’ve either gone bust or the MD has been locked away in a mental asylum!!

         • @Tommo…..

           Based on CFD and all their gadgets, Jenson said the 2013 McLaren was faster and better than the 2012 car……hmmmmm

           Based on Hamilton’s own words, what he was offered to join Mercedes, was less than what McLaren offered him, so he left money on the table to join a team that hadn’t done jack since they returned full time.

           And i did say that the figure quoted, was absurd at best.

         • Yeah fair enough, but it’s been fairly well documented McLaren’s aero department didn’t know what they were doing for a while!

           If it’s true McLaren offered more money then that enforces my point that Mercedes must have been able to be prove how good their car was when in negotiations with Lewis at the time. Otherwise he would have stayed surely, to keep himself in the best current car as things stood. Without that the risk would have been too great.

       • Right at the moment Lewish is definitely worth less to MB than Seb to Ferrari or Fred to McLaren.
         If you have a great car you don’t *need* a great driver.
         Both Ferrari and McLaren are coming off years of “failure” by their standards so need all the help they can get.
         I reckon Fred would be a pay driver out of his own pocket to get a genuine crack at his third championship.
         MB will SWOT the decision to death with Bottas as the alternative. Hamilton’s known but v. expensive. Bottas has potential and is super cheap by comparison. Interesting choice to be made.

         • Oh so because both Ferrari and McLaren have rubbish cars, their drivers deserve to be paid a heck of a lot more?

           Wouldn’t the best solution be, pay them less now and if they manage to help revive the fortunes of the team, reward them for their efforts?

           As for Bottas, he’s overrated

         • Fortis, my young friend. You don’t seem to grasp the mechanics of a market-driven economy.
           McLaren and Ferrari have lesser cars, so they need to pay big bucks to convince the top drivers to drive them with little chance for a title.
           Merc has a car Chilton would win in. They don’t need Lewis to drive it for them. They can sit down Bottas in it and he will win just as well, perhaps with 55 seconds gap at the end of a GP instead of 1 minute.

           It’s not nice, especially for a Lewis fan, but that’s how market-driven economy works.

           F1 isn’t a meritocracy and last year’s title is very old news very fast. Just ask Seb, how the team “rewarded” him for his fourth title.

         • “deserves” has naff all to do with it. You seem to think someone, someone cares that anything to do with F1 is “fair” or something. Mucho lols.

           Drivers are just employees bought into help win championships. If you are desperate for success and need help to get that success then you’ll pay more for a good employee. MB are neither desperate or in need of too much help at the moment.
           F1 is business. ROI rules. If you can invest way less for the same result then you win.

         • @Hippo…

           So they needed him when they were nowhere and now that they are top dogs, he’s surplus to requirements? So would the same apply to Seb and Fred if either team becomes the top dog?

         • Yes, it would. Ask Seb. They paid him a mere pittance in comparison to Alonso while he was collecting titles for them, simply because they didn’t need to pay big bucks.

           Sorry to be so blunt, Fortis, but I think your attachment to Lewis is a wee bit unhealthy. As a rabid Vettel supporter I can sympathize with the urge to defend him from people trying to belittle his achievements, but seriously, making a fuzz over how much he is paid? With all due respect, that’s ridiculous.

         • @Hippo….

           Can we stick to the conversation and stop with this rubbish about unhealthy relationship, i’m merely discussing the merits of what was written in the article.

           If you read my original post, i said the figure quoted was absurd, i’m not arguing about how much he’s paid, but rather peoples argument that he should take a pay cut, now that Mercedes are winning…

           So basically what Roger and yourself are saying…As a reward for bring the team success, you’ll be offered a paycut, because we can find someone else cheaper

           @RogerD…

           If you’re going to talk about ROI, i’m certain that they’ll have already and will make a substantial ROI on whatever they pay him, be it at a lower or higher salary package?

         • Your are mixing something up, Fortis. Nobody here says Lewis should take a paycut. We’re saying he will have to, because Merc know they can get away with it. And as I said, it’s not nice, but the reality of market dynamics.

         • Bring the team success? Crikey!

         • What you deserve and what you get is never the same. Especially because Mr boss man always thinks you deserve less than you think.

         • Nobody here says Lewis should take a paycut. We’re saying he will have to…

           An interesting, and probably incorrect viewpoint.

         • Ah but hippo, why will he have to? Now it’s up to him to negotiate. If he can convince them he won’t have to take the cut. Now its all about how good are you when things get tough. And there are some points he has an advantage. And there are some point where mercedes has the advantage. And that’s why it take so long.

         • Fortis, forgive me for saying I’m never going into business with you. The sole point is to maximise shareholder value – “substantial” and “more or less” mean nothing. Absolute maximum ROI is the only acceptable goal.

           Nigel: the breadth, heft and righteousness of your argument has convinced us all your viewpoint is correct. Thanks :/

         • No problem Roger.
           Your snark impresses me to exactly the same extent.
           🙂

         • Now Lewis is his own manager, he can afford at least 10% less gross which would give him the same net pay after everything had been paid (tax etc) so it may appear he ends up taking a pay cut but with no management to pay he will still be fine.

       • What Hamilton feels his worth is does not matter, he is the seller. The market value is determined by what the buyer will pay. Hamilton’s move to Mercedes was just as much a move away from McLaren. As I recall one of his sticking points with McLaren was over the trophies.
         Mercedes would have won the championship, in 2014, without Hamilton. The Mercedes was the star of 2014, will be again this year and the odds of it being the car to beat in 2016 are pretty good. So the question the Mercedes board members will be asking is “do we need Hamilton or are we better off with Bottas and $45 million more profit”. For Wolff that would put about $15 million in his pocket. Lauda is a shareholder as well.

         • Well written and exactly what I was thinking. I learned a long time ago that something is worth exactly what someone will pay for it, not what you want to get for it. I’ve watched houses sit on the market for years because the seller thinks it’s ‘worth’ $xxxx and they are only offered $yyyy. It’s called market value.

           Hamilton is a good driver, but he needs Mercedes more than they need him; if I were Mercedes I would play hardball; they are the best game in town and will have no trouble filling an empty seat.

           And Fortis, Hamilton is not the ‘face’ of F1 except to you and other fanbois. Some of us have different ideas about that but I will not try to convert you, as you can believe what you want. Conversely, let me have my thoughts and don’t try to convert me; you’re sort of treating this like religion.

         • Vettel had to suck up being at least the third best paid driver when he was winning his third title. It’s a trade off for being gifted a dominant car.

           It’s not as though Mateschitz couldn’t have afforded it – but he obviously felt he could afford to take the risk of Sebastian walking

2. NBC’s promo for the upcoming season….

   they’re coming for the Kings throne….

   http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/25/its-coming-march-14-first-f1-on-nbc-promo-of-the-year-teases-melbourne-video/

3. The picture of the Red Bull aero rakes on both sides of the car –
   http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/formula1/31608572
   – look as though it had an unfortunate encounter with a garden fence…

4. Is that an S-Duct outlet on the FI’s nose?

   • sure looks like it.

5. Are McLaren ever going to turn the wick up on that car? Or is that it’s top speed?? Long season ahead for Jenson by the looks of it. He probably should have retired. At least Alonso has the excuse of a broken brain.
   There’s the real story sussed. Alonso crashed on purpose to avoid having to trawl around with that Lada engine in the back of his car for two years plus!!

   • That’s quite an insult to Lada!

   • It probably won’t be ready in any real sense for Australia.

     I nonetheless stick with my prediction that it will win a race this season.

     • Bacon Airways Flight 123 cleared for take off Runway 11…

6. Apparently Fred has tweeted a video of him speaking and thanking fans for the support and said he would update about his progress

7. No-one gets us all talking in the comments section like Lewis eh? 😉

   • It’s called the Lewis effect, gets people talking.

     His situation is interesting though, I thought Lewis cared about winning but it seems money is ranking higher on his agenda, shame… I figure Bottas will fill in by the end of 2015.

     • Rubbish – It’s much more about how much the team VALUE a driver when negotiating a contract and is reflected in their salary. McLaren tried playing hardball and lost. Lewis is trying to get a figure that he feels he is worth – now 50 mill a year is a tad too high even i have to say. But to say he cares more about money than success is simply untrue – it’s what people said when he moved from macca to merc, now look at where he is. The salary a driver gets is about much more than just the face value – it also reflects how much the team would like the driver and what they consider him to be ‘worth’.

8. Hmmmm….. Baby Felipe…. Where have I heard that before? 😉

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