53 responses to “#F1 Testing: Jerez 2015 – Day 3, afternoon”

1. I’m hoping that its way too early to make a call on McLaren. Even though they have had a shakey start, if we look at RedBull this time last year, they were in a bigger mess and went on to win the only 3 races that Mercedes didn’t. At least there is no fire, which must bode well as it means that bodywork doesn’t need urgently redesigning around the engine and the fact they are claiming to know what the problems are and are confident they can fix them fairly quickly. There is no long faces and team aren’t slagging off their engine supplier as RedBull did last year so I think by the European leg of the season starts, we will see McLaren able to run at full power in the same way that at least Ferrari and Renault did last year by building up over a few events.

   I have to openly admit that McLaren are and always have been my team, so I’m possibly extra optimistic after their 2 years in the wilderness.

   • 2015 is going to be a long hard slog for McLaren Honda. However given the complexity of the Honda power unit and the aggressive packaging McLaren have gone for on the MP4-30 it was bound to be a test of not much running as they work through the issues. Alonso was on the ball today, otherwise that water leak could have been a lot worse i.e. power unit overheating, catching fire and probably putting an end to the test (depending on how many power units and spare parts Honda bought to the test).

     McLaren and Honda could have gone down the safe road, a not so tightly packaged MP4-30 and Power Unit going for reliability rather than performance. I’m sure that would have raised some eyebrows “It’s reliable but slower than a Skoda”.

     • ” However given the complexity of the Honda power unit …… ”

       Is it MORE complex than a Mercedes or Ferrari or Renault power unit ?

       Even Renault managed better last year than Honda this year.

       HONDA = FAIL

       –

       Keep spouting the inane drivel taperoo2k 😉

       • It’s a great deal better packaged than, say, the Red Bull appears to be (and it’s not as though they have run a phenomenal number of laps in the last couple of days…).
         However much you might be wishing for Honda to fail, it doesn’t make it so.

         I’m very encouraged with today’s running, and I stick with my prediction that they will win at least one race this season

         • Would that win come when both Merc, Williams, Redbull and Ferrari don’tanage to finish the race?

           Why is it everyone seems to think it’s all down to the PU? Williams and FI had the best engine on the grid last season, but neither were in the position to pick up the pieces when the Mercs failed, so why now Honda’s just going to turn up and win races?

         • No.

           And I don’t.

         • There’s no limit to updating the PU for reliability so..

           Fortis – there’s a big difference between being a works team and a customer. Better integration can be a big boost to performance.

       • I prefer Insane Drivel 😉

         Judging Honda on development power units ? I think you should wait for the Race Specification power unit to be bolted into the MP4-30 before you declare HONDA = FAIL. Seems the FAIL Power Train was only 4km/h slower than Mercedes on the main straight. That’s before Honda have even run things at full power and got all the systems working together. Of course when they do, the whole thing could catch fire given the tight packaging. And now I must be even more inane for I want to listen to Phil Collins.

         • I think you need to reassess that comment about the 4km difference. What Scarbs also said was, the Merc was still pulling speed when it got to the end of the main straight, so the 4km differential is not actually accurate.

         • @ taperoo2k

           ” Judging Honda on development power units ? ”

           YES

           –

           Because as I said yesterday – the benchmark was the Mercedes PU at the first test last year.

           That was also a development power unit.

           QED – HONDA IS A MASSIVE FAIL

           Dress it up anyway you want – and clutch at as many straws as you want – fact is

           Honda has FAILED !

         • Bit shouty there, mankster.

         • @ Nigel

           that’s because taperoo2k is profoundly DEAF !

         • I’m not deaf, just been watching F1 since the late 80’s when things fell to bits quite regularly and have a thing called patience. Not expecting miracles from Honda in 2015. What some of you appear to forget that this is a long term project between McLaren and Honda, it may take some time before it starts to pay off. Renault were slaughtered this time last year but they’ve slowly gotten to grips with their problems, not all of which they are likely to solve this season.

           Being profoundly deaf is no laughing matter either. Don’t like my opinion ? Ignore me and you’ll no doubt be much happier.

         • Your forget that Renault finished the first race with Dqanny Ric – so good they even managed to cheat. Honda so far doesn’t look like they make the starting line without a UN humanitarian aid camp.

         • I’ve not forgotten, but only because they tried to use the fuel flow meter problems to their advantage for a performance boost and the FIA put their foot down for once, still surprised by that one. Riccardo was in the right place at the right time when the Mercs went pear shaped later in the season. Definitely a World Champion if Red Bull and Renault can give him the car to get the job done (alas the RB11 stopped out on track again this morning).

           As for McLaren Honda ? They’ve got a long hard struggle ahead of them, but it’s far too early to be declaring the power unit a failure. Given they are not even running the race power unit yet. If that’s just as much of a shambles as the current development units then if I were Alonso and Jenson I’d book a table at a restaurant for Sunday during the race. Or install bicycle pedals into the cockpit.

         • Is @mankster is the same person as @manky of a year ago, as seen in this comment?
           http://thejudge13.com/2014/02/21/f1-testing-bahrain-day-3-mercedes-continues-their-onslaught/#comment-43081

         • Yes, just like I kept writing my name in until I got a wordpress account. Same thing.. name evolution.

   • No slagging = classier outfit 😉

2. Might have to change my commentator name from Clear View to McLear View………👍😁

   • How about ..

     OPAQUE VIEW ?

     • Or ‘Rose-tinted View’ LoL

   • It’s unclear, presently……..

3. Re : QPR

   Harry Redknapp has resigned as QPR manager, saying imminent knee surgery would stop him doing his job.

   “Sadly I need immediate surgery on my knee,” Redknapp said. “If I can’t give 100% I feel it’s better for someone else to take over the reins.”

   –

   Bet that excuse went down well with Tony F …… 😉

   • Tony F had previously said on Twitter that with better management they’d be able to do better than they currently are with their team, and that there’d be no more “open cheque book”. Redknapp didn’t complete any of the transfers he wanted to on deadline day so I’d imagine it was just him quitting but trying to dress it up as something more face-saving for all concerned.

4. Hello, TJ13 crew there in Jerez!

   I like you guys, so it’s not easy to say the following.

   TJ13’s reports on Jerez are surprisingly poor given that TJ13 has a few bodies with press credentials at there at the track.

   What would vastly improve these reports is to focus on the basics. Jerez, for the teams and drivers, is a series of engineering tests, (done in serial and parallel) for all the teams.

   When the teams look at the other teams there at Jerez, they (like all of us) don’t know the specific tests or programs that other teams are performing at any given moment. But the teams will be looking at some of the same data that is made available exclusively to the accredited press there in Jerez.

   Here are the things that are happening in Jerez that ought to be shared:

   Track conditions: The ambient and track surface temps, and precipitation could be shared here more frequently (as part of the hourly format seen here in this report).

   Tires: What tires did a car run on?

   How many laps per run? (Install lap, short run, long run, how many laps??)

   Cumulative number of laps for the half day, full day, and week.

   Lap times: Use the lap times to describe a run, ie. “The Sauber on the intermediates ran 5 laps, consistently in the mid 95’s (1:35’s whatever) in the damp.” Or, “The Ferrari then ran 7 laps alternating between fast laps (best 1:21.8) versus slow laps ~5 secs slower…” or whatever, or anything!

   I realize there are guys there doing live play by play feeding a website and/or twitter, (autosport, F1i, AMuS, etc). I’m not asking for that, but I’m asking that the summaries share a bit more of the data that is there.

   And have fun! 🙂

5. I’m really getting sick and tired of Mercedes-Benz. I cannot remember a team that so demonstratively sent out the message – “We are going to embarrass you lot” so blatantly and I’m starting to wonder what is behind all that. Nobody can tell me that it is just ‘having done a better job’. There is just nobody anywhere near – not even their own customers. Neither Ferrari, Williams or Red Bull ever showed up the competition like that at the height of their dominance. They could just as well hang up banners saying “Don’t bother watching, we’ll walk it fuckers.”
   This is going to hurt F1 very badly – well, except for the Hamilton brigade of course, who’ll say it’s all down to Lewis’ magnificence.

   • Well – sorry mate – but I’m not sick and tired of Mercedes-Benz.

     I say a big huzzah to them.

     Not because I’m a Mercedes fan – but because I admire excellence in engineering.

     And I’m not so sure that it will hurt F1 at all.

     • Ferrari 2000-2005 hurt F1, RB in 2011 and 2013 hurt F1 – so will Mercedes 2014 – god knows when.
       And I submit, you only admire engineering excellence if it benefits the ‘right driver’. There seemed to be a distinct lack of appreciation for RB’s achievements in recent years.

       • Not sure how you can make that comparison after just one season. The other teams you mentioned maintained that level of dominance over a extended period, let’s not be so to make the same assumption that Mercedes will do the same.

       • Oh Semi-aquatic one – I disagree

         What evidence is there is support your claims that Ferrari or RBR dominance hurt F1 ?

         If viewing figures declined – that had more to do with the broadcast model – not the events on the track.

         Did actual track attendances decline during those periods ? I don’t think so. And that is a more accurate measurement than TV viewing figures.

         Fans that make the effort and put their hands in their pockets are a better divination than some here today gone tomorrow ” viewers “.

         –

         ” And I submit, you only admire engineering excellence if it benefits the ‘right driver’. ”

         And which – ” RIGHT DRIVER ” do you mean ?

         • The viewership numbers in Germany dropped, even with Germans doing the winning. And F1 to this very days is shown on free-to-air TV in Germany. How much more evidence do you need?

         • Danilo – I expected a better riposte from you.

           Ah – so you are using the TV viewing figures argument.

           As well as biasing your argument by only using German TV as an example.

           Well I need far more evidence than the paltry one you have supplied …

           –

           And you still haven’t answered – which ” RIGHT DRIVER ” do you mean ?

         • You were in the wrong place at the wrong time. A convenient target to unload at. There are a lot of people around here, who were moaning for four years : “oh we need to abolish aerodynamics, because RB has Newey and we can’t have him – waaaaahh, it’s so unfair booohooooo. A german is winning *cry* That’s not fair when we are the greatest nation in the world, even if we aren’t even british and were born on a jungle clearing *waaaaah* It’s all about the car *whiiiine*

           Suddenly building a superior car is en vogue again. I hate double standards.

         • @ Danilo

           fair enough mate

           I never said those things

           I never rubbished RBR’s or Seb’s achievements

           –

           But you shouldn’t criticize Mercedes for their success.

           You should criticize the other teams for their failings …..

         • Oh, don’t worry mate. I *will* criticisize* the other teams for their ‘failure’ although I think that failure was premeditated by a FIA brainfade – Hippo Rant is already 80% complete…

       • RB might have undermined their own ‘achievements’ by their tendency to play fast and loose with rules though? They’ve been caught out a few times doing some relatively dodgy things (and not officially caught doing some too). Equally, Newey is still incredibly highly regarded and considered one of the best designers out there so it’s not like people haven’t given them any kind of praise/mention, is it?

         • Err, Ferrari barge boards ’99. Mclaren 3rd brake pedal. Renault swinging weights, BAR illegal extra tank, Sauber oversized wings 2001, Renault race fixing, McLaren spy gate, McLaren lie gate. Try again.

         • We’re talking specifically about Red Bull though, aren’t we? That’s why I specifically framed my answer about things that *they* had done that might tarnish *their* reputation. Other people doing sketchy things doesn’t really matter in relation to that – Red Bull were the ones who designed and built cars the way they did, so any associated negative PR is on them and them alone.

         • But why are they called “cheaters” when others have corrupted the sport so badly they’ve been exluded from whole seasons of the sport? This just sounds like people being utterly bumhurt, does it not? Stretching the rules has been part of the sport and was once even considered part of the game, why is it converted into ‘negative PR’ only for RB? McLaren for instance have damaged the sport even worse than Ecclestone over the last 10 years, yet everyone rolls out the red carpet for them. Find a spring in RB’s front wing and they are utter cheaters – explain the logic in that!

         • Constantly changing the point you’re trying to make while citing random peoples opinions makes this whole comment stream fairly redundant. You were specifically talking about why “there seemed to be a distinct lack of appreciation for RB’s achievements in recent years”, and now you’re suddenly asking why unspecified “people” apparently are calling them “cheaters”?

           For a start you seem to be spectacularly downplaying the significant amount of praise that Newey got/gets for the various innovations he brought to the table whilst working for Red Bull. Every article about F1 cars of recent years mentions the advances they made. You seem to be confusing the general anti-Vettel sentiment that some posters/pundits have for anti-Red Bull sentiment which isn’t really the case.

           The fundamental issue I have with your original post though is what do you expect Mercedes to do about it? You talk about them “showing up” the competition, and question why they’re doing it – what do you expect them to do? Ask Nico/Lewis to not push the right pedal so hard? If you use the word “freeze” as part of your answer it immediately voids everything else contained within it 😉 Every team takes part in F1 to try and win races, and each team had to play by the same rules for engine development. They’re under no obligation to allow others to play catch up, irrespective of what you happen to think is right/wrong. Speaking simply in plain facts, they don’t have to do anything to allow other teams to catch up with them. I’m not saying whether I agree with what they do or not because that’s totally irrelevant, but I still stand by my original points about the perception of RB.

         • Nothing to do with you, but you are exactly making my point. I cannot count, how often I wrote : “What is Vettel supposed to do? Drive deliberately slow?” when people lambasted him for winning. I would be surprised if my whining by now wouldn’t be utterly annoying, but the thing is, I only use the phrases that were levelled at RB/Vettel for four years and people should really sit back and hang their head in shame as they recognize their own drivel from not too many moons ago.
           The 2011 and 2013 RB’s were master pieces – tricky to drive – but if you could adapt they were unbeatable, and certain people to this very day insist that it was wrong, because non-british drivers aren’t allowed to win in their opinion. I’m going to drive that point home until those sad individuals realize what sort of clown they have made of themselves. In this day and age we should be past such mundane bullshit like nationality and heritage. We are in an age where it doesn’t friggin’ matter anymore. My favourite drivers are Mansell and Zanardi and I admire them for what they were and did, not where the heck they came from.
           As for what I expect from Merc is to see the good of the sport, which they don’t. Whenever Merc were in F1 they forced their way through with brute force. Whether it was 1954, the mid-nineties or now. They massively outspend everyone to buy the success. In the mid-nineties it were Romulan alloys, this time it was by out-spending Renault and Ferrari 2-to-1. They don’t fancy opposition on equal footing. If they are as good as they think, they’d meet the opposition on a level playing field. RB never did that – they were qalways #2 behind Ferrari and sometimes even behind McLaren.

         • Again though you’re blurring your views on other peoples’ views on RB and Vettel and assuming they were about the same thing, which I don’t believe they were. As I said, Red Bull (or more specifically Adrian Newey) have been consistently praised for what they’ve produced. I don’t think people have underplayed their technical prowess in any way which was the only point of yours I was initially disagreeing with.

           Genuine question: If the FIA hadn’t taken steps to rule against them at different times, do you think that Red Bull would have decided to abandon all the various concepts they developed that led to them dominating to the extent they did in those years? Would they have possessed that altruistic “Well, we’d better let everyone else catch up” desire that you seem to think that Mercedes ought to have?

         • Nice bucket of words saying nothing. Anywhoo. Ferrari were best between 2000-2004 – rules changed to sabotage them. RB were best in 2013 – rules changed to sabotage them. Merc were best in 2014 – I’m waiting.

         • Hippo is right – what good for F1 is it if Mercedes trump Renault and Ferrari 2 to 1? FIA slipped up not putting in a customer engine cost of 10m. But they sold out to Bernie already and can’t govern.

           Bernie could try and change it up – twin turbo V6s with KERS – but it also suits him to have 8 teams and 3 cars, which will happen if Force India go to the wall. It depends on whether he needs 18 cars in Melbourne or not..

   • @hippo…..

     Why you mad son?…. Lol
     🙂 🙂 🙂

   • We feel for you, Hippo.

     Neither Ferrari, Williams or Red Bull ever showed up the competition like that at the height of their dominance.

     You clearly weren’t at Silverstone in 1992.

   • Calm down, mate – this is only the first test. Let’s at least wait until we’ve had a race or two shall we?

     sheesh…

     • NO

       DON’T CALM DOWN

       Get heated

       Get argumentative

       RANT !

       🙂

   • @FatHippo said, “I cannot remember a team that so demonstratively sent out the message – “We are going to embarrass you lot” so blatantly…”

     Candidly, I have to ask this question of you, oh excessively angry one, because I’m actually concerned that I’ve overlooked some news or something…

     What has the Mercedes team done to cause you to have this anger? Was it something they said (press release, twitter, interview), or was it something that they did (their on-track testing regime at Jerez for example)?

     • It’s the “we have a ‘hard year’ ahead” shpiel and then running rings around anyone´, runningn more than half as many laps on the first day as they did in four days last year. Feels like they mock people.

       • Ah, thank you!

         Jerez can be weird… Bahrain will provide us all a better view.

   • The shame about that is that if we had roughly equal top cars, we’d see Hamilton and Alonso duking it out like it was 2007 once more. Hopefully McLaren-Honda can get near Mercedes, just so we can see a bit more of that before Alonso retires. Resurgent Ferrari with Vettel wouldn’t be too bad either, followed by Ricciardo/Bottas chipping in on occasion.

6. Any sign of Finbar (bless him) there?

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