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Previously on The Judge 13:
Judges Chamber: Has #F1 gone down the rabbit hole and up the spout all at the same time?
#F1 Qualifying Review: Rosberg on top in Texas Sunshine
OTD Lite: 1946 – Alan Stanley Jones is born
Ecclestone admits he ruined F1, sort of
Cornered Wolff barks at Ferrari and Red Bull
OTD Lite: 1946 – Alan Stanley Jones is born
Only two Australians have managed to win the Formula One title. When Sir Jack Brabham won his third and last title in 1966, the second Aussie to follow him was just turning 20 years old – Alan Jones.
He made his F1 debut with a bought Hesketh car at the infamous 1975 Spanish GP at Montjuich, the race that became known for the driver strike, Ken Tyrell walking out on the track with a spanner, fixing the barriers because the track owners couldn’t, Rolf Stommelens crash that killed five spectators and Lella Lombardi becoming the first – and so far only – points scoring woman in F1. Jones’s race was however over after a collision with Mark Donohue on lap 3.
After 4 races his team withdrew and he was named Stommelens replacement at Graham Hill’s Embassy team. He ended the season with a best result of 5th at the fearsome Nordschleife. Stints with John Surtees’ team and Shadow followed, before he caught the eye of Frank Williams, who was looking for a driver to give his struggling team a taste of victory. Someone who scored his maiden victory at the Österreichring in a Shadow and won five out of ten races in Can Am while simultaneously driving in F1 seemed like the right guy for the job.
Results were initially hard to come by, with a second place at the Glen, a track he knew well from his Can Am days, being the best result. But he finally put Sir Frank’s team on the map in 1979, when he won four out of five races towards the end of the season at the wheel of the FW07.
He won seven races in 1980 on his way to win his and Williams’s first World Championship, becoming Australia’s second and so far last World Champion. He had a good chance at the title in 1981 as well, but a fierce rivalry with team mate Carlos Reutemann saw them stealing points off each other leaving the title to Nelson Piquet. After winning at Las Vegas in 1981, Jones called it a day and buggered off.
He came back for a one-off drive for Arrows in 1983 and full-time for the 1985 and 1986 seasons with Haas-Lola (Carl Haas, not Gene), but the asthmatic Ford turbo was never up to the challenge and after two fruitless seasons, he hung up the helmet for good with 12 race wins, 6 pole positions and one world championship to his name.
The Fat Hippo
Ecclestone admits he ruined F1, sort of
Just one day after he slammed the smaller teams as “people running around with a beggar’s basket”, who nobody needs, the toad from Suffolk made a complete U-turn and now sort of admits that he ruined F1.
“There is too much money being distributed badly – probably my fault.” (The word you were looking for is ‘definitely’, Bernard) “Like lots of agreements people make, they seemed a good idea at the time. (I made a truckload of money) I know what’s wrong, but don’t know how to fix it.” (It would cost me money to fix it. Can’t have that)
So could it be that the old hack has finally seen the light? No he hasn’t. The admission came on the back of Lotus, Sauber and Force India threatening not to race and already being weakened in his position by the lawsuits he had to bribe himself out of, such an upheaval is the last thing he needs as not even CVC could save his wrinkled arse in that case.
What’s even funnier is that Ecclestone claims he doesn’t know how to fix it. There is a simple solution, Einstein. Burn the contracts and make new one’s and if Horner or Wolff cry the latter, shove them aside and speak to Zetsche and Matteschitz. You didn’t use to have such problems eeking out deals in the past.
There is no sympathy coming from the waterhole for the short stuff. You broke it – you fix it. The ball’s in your court now.
Lewis finally sees reason
Lewis might be one of the best drivers on the grid, but he seems to be utterly clueless at selecting a competent management. After ditching his unhinged father as a manager, he now did the same with Simon Fuller and his company XIX Entertainment. Fuller and his crew, who were once responsible for hyping the Spice Girls, are mainly to blame for the Brit’s rather dubious image.
Nobody has brought more discussion to this site this year than Lewis Hamilton, mainly because once he started winning a horde of his fans came down on us like a pack of dogs on a three-legged cat. Those of us, who don’t jump on the Lewis bandwaggon do not necessarily deny his obvious talent, it’s the off-track hype, this constant push to make him a celebrity that turned most people off. It felt at times as if he was meant to be the David Beckham of F1 and it comes as little surprise that the pig’s bladder kicking posterboy for hair product was also ‘managed’ by Fuller and his infernal gang.
If I was Lewis, I would send Seb an SMS asking for a little chat over dinner. The German hasn’t got a management and considering that he ended up at Ferrari, I wouldn’t consider that a bad thing. He would surely be willing to give you a few pointers on how to sort out your stuff on your own with a little help from the Missus. Seb might be disliked for winning to much, but isn’t that a sort of dislike you could easily live with? And if Scherzy answers your mail in the future it would keep her from singing. Everybody wins.
Cornered Wolff barks at Ferrari and Red Bull
After prattling himself into a very tight corner during the Thursday press conference, Mercedes’ slightly clueless and very hippo-critical mouthpiece Toto Wolff hits out at fellow competitors Ferrari and Red Bull, accusing them of ‘willingly accepting the death of smaller teams’, as he theorizes the easing of engine freeze would drive up costs. Nevermind that they already were bankrupt beforehand.
“We constantly have to fight the resistance of our competitors,” the Austrian laments in an interview with ‘Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung’ in Germany. “Every day there’s a new topic.” Seeing that it is the main reason for their superiority, he reacts especially bad to calls for easing the engine freeze. “I think it is unbelievable rubbish. It costs much more money and some of them think they can hurt us with it.”
How much more two-faced can it get? In the further course of the interview he calls Marussia and Caterham ‘naive and overly optimistic’ and accuses Red Bull and Ferrari of driving up costs, when it was they, who outspent the competition by two-to-one. Even more damning is the two-facedness of Wolff himself. He is also responsible for Mercedes’ DTM program and after suffering a run of disastrous races in the early season, he gladly accepted BMW and Audi’s offer to ease the aero-freeze for them. In F1 however he isn’t shy to lie and obfuscate to deny the competition parity on the engine sector.
We have a worthy successor for Bernie.
“Burn the contracts and make new one’s and if Horner or Wolff cry the latter, shove them aside and speak to Zetsche and Matteschitz.”
Real clever stuff. Nobody in F1 is smarter than you, Judge.
““There is too much money being distributed badly – probably my fault.” (The word you were looking for is ‘definitely’, Bernard) “Like lots of agreements people make, they seemed a good idea at the time. (I made a truckload of money) I know what’s wrong, but don’t know how to fix it.” (It would cost me money to fix it. Can’t have that)”
More accurate translation: I know how to fix it, but don’t want to.
I think the toad from Suffolk is simply biding his time and playing good cop/bad cop. The sly fox is trying to stir even more confusion among the headless chickens also known as F1 stakeholders.
Is Lewis ditching his management to save their fees if Mercedes offer a pay cut? Earn less but keep it all and he may still be as well or even better off? It may explain why the deals waiting until the end of the season….
“Nobody has brought more discussion to this site this year than Lewis Hamilton, mainly because once he started winning a horde of his fans came down on us like a pack of dogs on a three-legged cat.”
Judge, this is beneath TJ13. You shouldn’t allow such stuff being published. Last I checked I didn’t see any pieces derogatorily mocking one single fat hippo coming down on each and every commenter who criticizes Vettel and/or praises Hamilton and trampling them to death like a pack of hippos on a poor mouse…
Not to mention the following “mainly because once he started winning a horde of his fans came down on us” being plain wrong (again). Hamilton started winning 4 times in a row, so the trolls came out of hiding criticising Hamilton about everything and his dog so inevitably the Hamfosi responded.
“the pig’s bladder kicking posterboy for hair product”
Ever seen Rosberg’s hair btw? It happens to be perfectly styled, even right after an hour long qualy session.
drivel ……..
the Hamifosi are the trolls
I dunno, I don’t ever attempt to Troll and am a Hamifosi, I think there are a minority of equally guilty folks on either side that seem pathalogically incapable of letting things slide. A microcosm of the rest of life/society.
Adam
you are NOT a Hamifosi – you are a Hamilton fan
BIG difference !
FH probably wrote that piece. Either that or thejudge had a domestic and needed to vent.
In my view, that’s definitely the hippo. Can you not see the steams coming out of you electronic device while reading it? My iPhone screen fogged up so often, i might have to figure out how to get heated screens on phones.
He may think Nicole can’t sing, but I tell you what, she’s one damn sexy cougar that I’d like to see in the garage more.
try dunking your iPhone in a hot cup of tea or coffee ….
that should fix it 😀
IYO –
” He may think Nicole can’t sing, but I tell you what, she’s one damn sexy cougar ….. ”
–
IMO –
as sexy and attractive as a dead halibut – but not as talented
I know manky, Susan Boyle is more your type….. 😉
at least Susan can sing ……
I reckon that’s to do with the moustache Manky, when she was in the queue waiting for life skills, god thought she was a Welshman. 😀
@manky….
I tell you what, I’d rather wake up with Nicole in my bed any day of the week, even if hearing singing would render me deaf rather that the sweet tunes of Susan Boyle.
You can put in earplugs to drown out the singing, but you’d have to take far more drastic actions With Ms Boyle.
A few years I watched ‘The search for the next Pussycat Doll’, and as a musician I can say whether you like it or not, Nicole Has talent for music. Not everybody who (used to) got the looks is Milli Vanilli – loads of them are actually very, very good.
I had similar views to others on here until I heard her sing bits from Phantom. For someone from her musical background she did remarkably well and it made me think again about her talent.
As for the looks… Well, a friend of mine had a saying ‘I wouldn’t throw her out of bed’ – meaning there is better but there is also a lot worse…
Alonso and button do the best jobs on wife/ girlfriend.
Sutil….. One of the ugliest driver and his bird is breath takingly beautiful.
“FH probably wrote that piece.”
No points for guessing that. It’s written under the text, isn’t it ? 😉
And I, for one, am glad you are back writing frequently on the site.
What usually brings most Hamilton related discussion to the site is not really “the off-track hype, this constant push to make him a celebrity that turned most people off…”; it’s the regular insinuations and outright accusations of race fixing.
The one has little to do with the other.
And so what if they were pushing for him to be a “celebrity”? I’m not saying they were but I don’t see what this has to do with anyone but Lewis. Has it affected his on track performances? – One may argue it did in 2011, but not in any other season.
In a time where we don’t like drivers to be media drones, up pops Lewis, a driver that is engaging with his fans and does not hide his feelings in situations where drivers are expected to keep their gobs shut. Yet he is still criticised despite us saying we want drivers who stick two fingers up to the establishment.
The old men of this website also have a problem with him wearing jewelry lmao! Quite funny that it p!sses them off, but we’ll leave that for another day 😉
James Hunt was worshiped and still is by people for his partying ways and encounters with women – another driver who told the establishment where to go. God forbid Lewis ever goes out partying during a season, people would be calling for him to be ousted from Formula One.
There is a difference between being anti-establishment because you are and being anti-establishment because the management tell you to be. For instance: He wasn’t shoving his ‘religious views’ down everybody’s throat before he became involved with XIX. Also things like tweeting team internals or shooting off his mouth in interviews. It’s not that difficult to see that Fuller & Co tried to give him a personality transplant so he is more marketable. For instanbce the #BlessYou crap is clearly directed at ‘Murrica.
Bullsh!t!!!…
Lewis has always been religious and something he has never hidden. Actually, can show us were he’s ‘shoving his religious views’ down everyones throats and don’t talk about him wearing a crucifix chain either, because that’s not shoving a religious belief down someons throat. The only person who seems to take notice or offense to that, is you. Maybe the problem is not with him, but rather with you and the fact that your a self confess atheist, don’t hear anyone having ago at you whenever you mention it.
You’re still hung up on that tweet? Is that all you’ve got?
Yea Hippo, no other driver goes shooting off their mouth in interviews, not even your saintly finger boy.
I don’t end everything I write or say with #Atheist. I mention it, whn it is pertinent to the discussion or what I’m currently writing.
Religious beliefs or lack thereof are a private matter and don’t belong on a podium interview, especially since some of the races are held in Muslim countries or for instance Japan, where people are mainly of Shinto faith. It simply doesn’t belong in public.
Come come now hippo, that comment makes you sound ignorant.
So if one makes reference to their religious beliefs in a country that’s of Islamic or Shinto faith, that’s wrong? So by that reasoning then it should be wrong for people of Islamic, Shinto, Budhist, Jewish or any other faith for that matter in a country that is not of either of those religious beliefs.
Tell you what hippo, if these countries had a problem with persons of another faith showing that, they’d make a law forbidding such actions, you know like how they do in parts of Holland and France where it’s illegal for Islamic females to wear the full niqab. .
Of all the things you have said, this has got to be the dumbest of them all.
Most civilized countries have freedom of religion, but that means practicing your religion in private. In Germany it is forbidden to wear Burkhas or Niqabs in public, while head scarfs are perfectly legal. Everybody is free to express his religious views where it is appropriate. A world-wide audience is not appropriate as that includes members of different faiths. I would just as negatively react to people preaching atheism or thanking Allah on the rostrum. It’s not the place for it and makes the respective person look silly. That’s my opinion and I stick to it.
@ the hippo….
Yet again your comment makes no sense. Football gets one of the biggest audiences in the world, but that doesn’t stop players like Demba Ba, Mezut Ozill (both muslims) or Neymar to demonstrate their religious beliefs in front of millions of other viewers, some of who does not share the same religious beliefs.
A civilised society is about accepting and respecting other peoples religious beliefs. By hiding ones beliefs, is going back to the barberic times when it was a crime to do so. If person is not allowed to do so, then that’s not a civilised nation.
But just so i’ve not missed anything, where exactly was it that Lewis ‘preaching’ his religious beliefs on the rostrum?
I don’t remember the exact race, he made religious references on at least two occasions. As for the footballers. Just because they kick a pig’s bladder about all day doen’t make them any different. In fact Özil has been quite heavily criticized for his public religious statements in the German press. And just so that nobody come with the xenophobic argument. The German public detests open references to Christianity just as much and the majority is Christian. The only exception is Bavaria, which is basically a radical-fundamentalist Christian god-state.
“I don’t remember the exact race, he made religious references on at least two occasions. “……
Two occassions and you call that ‘shoving down ones throat’….What would you call it had it been done every single time a mic is put in front of his face
” And just so that nobody come with the xenophobic argument. The German public detests open references to Christianity just as much and the majority is Christian. The only exception is Bavaria, which is basically a radical-fundamentalist Christian god-state.”
Ok, so those that accept such behaviour are radical fundamentlist or are they uncivilised?
I think i’ll stop there
you promised to stop so often,…
Exactly this……”Those of us, who don’t jump on the Lewis bandwaggon (sp)……………”
Just give it a rest Fanboi, this gets really old really fast. I thought you had grown past this.
@FH, Germans detest public references to Christianity? Remind me again as to the name of the largest political party in the Reichstag?
I have no problem with people saying ‘God Bless’, or signing the cross, or Ozil praying before kick-off with hands out, palms up and open. I don’t see that as someone ‘forcing’ that onto me. To my mind, it’s sincere and genuine, and that’s all anyone can ask for from our public figures.
… and when I say Reichstag, please read Bundestag. :-/
Between Nigel’s uninformed or misinformed comment about “Making Hamilton a celebrity” and Hippo and monkey’s delusional blather it’s quite obvious that anyone who tries to objectively perceive Hamilton and place his accomplishments and his foibles in their proper context gets assailed with ad hominem attacks fallacious arguments.
If Lewis Hamilton was the heinous, no-talent cretin you people who hate him make him out to be, he’d be out of racing – period. He doesn’t supply his teams with Sugar Daddy money to get a seat, so what is it Hippo, manky, et al.?
Answer these: do you believe or think Lewis Hamilton is a Formula One driver because he’s Black? Do you believe or think Ron Dennis signed Lewis Hamilton at age 13 because he is Black – an act Dennis never considered doing with ANY other driver until the 2010 formation of McLaren’s, “Young Driver Programme”?
Answer these: why have none of you Hamilton haters criticized Nico Rosberg for saying, this season (at the beginning of the German GP week) he has “two home races” when just last season he talked about feeling out of sorts because his rootless upbringing and lack of feeling an allegiance to any European country meant he had NO HOME RACE? And why do you think Nico Rosberg, this season, after proclaiming that “Monaco is my home race,” suddenly proclaimed the German GP as “my 2nd home race” after Silverstone, Hamilton’s ACTUAL home race?
Salient answers please – leave the b.s. in your psychological closets.
Aha, the good ol’ racism approach again. First of all, I have never met a ‘Hamilton hater’ on this side – correction – I did once and he was banned permanently.
Nobody denies Lewis’s talent as a driver, he’s one of the best without doubt. He had his off-moments, mainly the whole 2011 season, but there is no denying that very few people can operate a motor-vehicle faster than him.
What sets him apart is the ridiculous hype off the track and I don’t even blame Lewis for that. I think that was mainly down to the influence of Fuller and XIX which he sort of let happen. Even Alonso with his incessant ‘Samurai’ blather doesn’t create such a circus around his person. There are people, who are turned off by such antics.
That’s a major part of why I support Vettel. He’s a bloody good driver, but apart from that he’s staying out of my life. He’s not appearing every week in some yellow press rag telling me what he thinks of the world. He doesn’t need to comment on his team mate every week. Same goes for Bottas. The guy is THE revelation of this season, yet he goes on with the job instead of seeking a microphone to burp into at every corner.
I think Lewis is the victim here. He had his public image thrashed by people with dollar signs in their eyes and I hope he finally smells the cordite and puts an end to it and concentrates of what he’s best at – being a bloody fast driver.
Seb didn’t have to comment about his teammate, because at that point in time, he was wiping the floor with him and he was not a serious threat to his WDC aspirations, he had other drivers breathing down his neck to take his crown. However he has to comment about his teammate this season, because the shoes is on the other foot and he’s now the wiping boy.
The same goes for Bottas, he’s making Massa look like a chump. So you really don’t expect reporters to ask much questions about him. And let’s be honest, Bottas maybe a good driver, but he’s as bland as they come, not much marketing you can do with him especially when you’re trying to market a sport globally.
So I’m not really sure how you can try and make the comparison especially when every single race weekend, Lewis and Nico are the only 2 drivers who stand a chance of winning the races, so clearly it makes sense that he’ll be talking about his teammate and likewise Nico. He has to answer questions about his teammate as well and I’m sure both drivers would wish that they didn’t have to. But maybe if the other teams had done a better job, then you probably you wouldn’t have to continually hear each drivers talking about each other all the time.
So lewis commenting about Nico every week, is not of his doing, but rather that of the media. Would you have preferred if when asked he told them to sod off and stop asking him questions? Can you imagine how that would go down? You’d have field day with it.
Now I don’t want to get into race issues, but have you ever thought that he gets so much attention, because he’s the first and only black male in a sport that has been dominated by his white counterparts? Seb doesn’t get the same level of publicity, but you can’t seriously compare them, because despite being a quadruple WDC, Seb is still not the face of F1 neither is Alonso. Look at women’s tennis, who’s the most talk about female in the sport for the past 10+ years? Even though he’s not winning anymore, it’s the same for Tiger Woods.
Good one Hippo, don’t let the B*****ds grind you down.
Signed,
A Hamifos.. no a Hamilton fan… I dunno what I am. Lewis is my favourite driver, but my butthole doesn’t do somersaults everytime someone says something not praising his every move… Does that just make me a motorsport fan, with a driver preference?
Exactly that.
That’s what lead me to the comment in the news. We’ve had Hamilton supporters since day one. But they were usually eloquent enough not to try to blackmail the rest of the audience into jumping the bandwaggon. But a rather specieal breed arrived this year, who don’t accept criticism in any shape or form and are not below of making rather undefendable accusations if people don’t cave in to their demands.
@hippo…
There’s criticism and then there’s your criticsm, two completely different species.
That coming from you is fairly hilarious. Thanks for making my day 😀
I deserve the Nobel Peace prize, I made a hippo laugh…. 😉
@fortis. That’s where you’re wrong. Vettel doesn’t get as much media attention in the British press… but there are other presses too. Just as hamilton doesn’t get that much attention in Germany. Their focus this year is on rosberg. Not on hamilton…
You would be surprized how little attention Rosberg gets in the German press. For the first time since the Schumacher and Vettel hypes, the German press has been rather neutral this year, which is why things like the state of the sport are put much more in the spotlight
@bruznic…
That’s to be expected that Seb would get more attention in the German press vice versa the same for Lewis in Britain, but if you look at the overall media footprint, Lewis is much bigger.
My comment wasn’t in relation to the media in each drivers country of origin.
And what is this overall media footprint than? I can only speak for the things I see online (mostly English, so British press) belgian news paper (wich for some reason don’t do much f1) and a bit of german telly if the bbc doesn’t broadcast live. And it’s only on the English talking media that they go on and on about hamilton as far as I can see. But that’s of course normal since he is the best British driver at the moment…
@fat hippo, good comment, about Lewis and Sebastian, I think you have hit the nail squarely on it’s head.
Bottas is up there for sure, in terms of surprises. But surely the surprise of this season is Ricciardo. I think he will come 2nd in the post-season Team Principal poll.
The big advantage to being mixed is that you can choose your own identity – it’s not thrust upon you by others. At the same time, you don’t have an ‘easy group’ to fall back into, by nature of being a unique/smaller mix.
I think it’s easy to forget that Rosberg could also be a German-Finnish ‘mix’, as from the stupid POV, ‘he’s still white’. But, he will know the details of that. His paternal name sounds Germanic, not Finnish.. and Sweden occupied a part of Finland for a long time. It’s been suggested that Keke has Swedish roots.
So, Nico can choose no home race, one or two.. There’s no Finnish GP, hence the ‘none’ option, while he grew up in Monaco with German as a modus operandi, thus those two can be home races.
E.g. I could choose Britain or Malaysia, and Canada is also conveniently near family. But I wouldn’t choose China, even if that is the ethnicity that some of my ancestors left many moons ago, and Singapore is probably more representative of that identity on my behalf than Malaysia, as that is the closest ethnic group.
The name Rosberg is definitely Swedish.So it came from Swedish influence. Finnland has a substantial Swedish minority.
Indeed… we could have a top twenty ‘wrong nationality’ drivers! Where’s BJF when you need him! 😛
f1esty. Huh? I asked why he wasn’t criticized? I fully understand his nationalities. The, “he can choose no home race, one or two,” is an, obviously irrelevant statement.
Again, answer the question, minus the games. Where was the criticism of Rosberg – for what was a quite obvious ploy to gain a hometown advantage when, just a year ago, even he said he had none? And this is asked because here and elsewhere people constantly criticize Lewis Hamilton’s alleged psychological games. But when Rosberg does the same ———- you act as though you don’t understand the question.
Well, I guess it was obvious that it was Rosberg playing simple mind games and ‘doing what he does best’.
They both need these little edges when it gets so close.. the momentum swung definitively back to Lewis after Spa.
It probably plays into the media spiel of Rosberg being more cerebral, which is a powerful thing, as a lot of people will take that then as a given fact, hence the lack of response.
Plus, for a lot of people, the hangover of race as a concept trumps ethnicity, unless the media trumps it all.
“The German hasn’t got a management and considering that he ended up at Ferrari”
It shall be sweet irony if Fred forces Ferrari’s hand and stays on, with Kimi, with Seb out in the cold. Anyone still fancy Seb at McLaren?
I thought Marchionne was supposed to force the issue? He backed himself into a corner more like. Great bussiness move, $50 million out the window….
Vettel-Alonso could still be a possibility, if anything, because Kimi is the one probably on the cheapest contract, remember…. although: 1x payoff fool you, 2x payoff, fool me….
I think M&M want Alonso gone, else they wouldn’t have taken the punt with Vettel. I don’t think the decision will hinge on money. If 50M is what it takes to get rid of Fernando, they’ll pay it. He’s burned too many bridges with the team.
True, and at the end of the day, $50m to Ferrari is only a part of what they get for ‘being Ferrari’…. that is why I have always liked to see Ferrari get beaten, and the same for McLaren this year – I can’t cheer on an inefficient team. Force India, Sauber etc. have all recently been beating them as customer teams less than half of the budget!
How can it be prestigious to win ‘with all the advantages’? That just makes it easier to win…
“Nobody has brought more discussion to this site this year than Lewis Hamilton, mainly because once he started winning a horde of his fans came down on us like a pack of dogs on a three-legged cat. “…..
Wow, sound like another one of the angry hippo rants. The last time I checked (Canada 07-Sochi 14), winning is something Lewis has always done. Maybe that bandwagon statement is more applicable to the other side of the Mercedes garage….
“How much more two-faced can it get? In the further course of the interview he calls Marussia and Caterham ‘naive and overly optimistic’ and accuses Red Bull and Ferrari of driving up costs, when it was they, who outspent the competition by two-to-one. Even more damning is the two-facedness of Wolff himself.”……
Ok this is definitely an angry hippo rant…
Am I missing something here, but have Ferrari not always outspent everyone in F1, especially throughout their championship years? They were treated as if they had destroyed the sport….
When an initiative was being made to deal with escalating cost, by trying to implement the RRA, was it not Redbull who put paid to that idea, by going out and continued to outspending everyone throughout their championship years? Wasn’t it Redbull who caused the collapsed of FOTA with their back door deal with Bernie? Not much condemnation for them either. So now that Mercedes have flexed their muscles and did the same, they’re now in someways being ganged up and being blamed for 2 teams going bust? Can you see the common theme? If you want to win, you’ve got to outspend your competitors, that’s the same in team oriented sport. Man City and Chelsea were mediocre clubs with little or no history in either the EPL or Europe, but the moment they found owners with pockets deeper than the ‘Mariana trench’, what was the first thing they did? They went and outspent everyone so as to achieve success.
Toto may have come across dismissive, but his responsibility is to Mercedes first and foremost. It wasn’t what Mercedes spent that cost the collapse of Marussia and Caterham, the signs were they’re long before that. Ok they outspent everyone, mainly on the engine side, but somehow their engines are cheaper that the utter crap that Ferrari and Renault have supplied to their customers, by not all the cost down to their customers.
Also lets be fair here, I’m dead certain that had Vijay, Monisha and Gerrard Lopez had the spending power of any of the top teams, they would’ve done the same without batting an eye lid at the lower teams.
This mess is not Mercedes or Toto’s fault, but rather that of the ringmaster of this circus, Mr Bernard Eccelstone.
“Ok they outspent everyone, mainly on the engine side, but somehow their engines are cheaper that the utter crap that Ferrari and Renault have supplied to their customers, ”
There’s the problem. They sell their engines at a huge loss, something Renault can’t afford to do. If Mercedes sold their engines at a realistic price, they’d be three times as expensive as the Renault.
But they haven’t, so that within itself is a mute point. You could argue about how much they spent if they had past those cost down to their customers, so clearly they’re looking at what impact it would have on the smaller teams.
The point of the new engine regs was lowering costs. What Merc did was raising them to gain an advantage. Not even RB went so far. They helped preventing the resource agreement (together with Ferrari and McLaren) but they stuck to their current funding. They didn’t raise it even higher.
Even if Mercedes win the constructors championship for the next two seasons, Redbull will still get paid more than they will get paid because of the agreement Redbull struck with Bernie.
Mercedes wanted a controlled F1 but were forced to unleash because two other teams wanted to have an advantage.
I still believe over the past 5 years. Mercedes’ spending is not over what Redbull and Ferrari have spent.
I’m inclined to agree with you that over 5 years Ferrari probably outspent Merc, but certainly not Red Bull as they don’t have an engine departement. So Merc was 500M up on them over the last two seasone alone. RB’s spending is usually exaggerated anyway as people throw in spending that has nothing to do with F1, because Red Bull Technology, the biggest item on their spending bill also works in different areas – WRC, Stratosphere Jump etc.
Surely the FIA could just have announced a limit on costs of engines for customers? Similar to the prices of the V8s?
Thus, any money thrown at it for R&D is purely for that, and can be written off as such. If Mercedes still spent as much as they did – then they did so to get that winning PR, at an even greater cost than at current.
No. Every year toyota competed they spent more than ferrari…
Not saying the did, but neither has Mercedes, so it’s unfair to single them out, when it’s common practice in the sport.
I bet Toyota wished they had a time machine to go back to before they entered F1.
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* Toyota board meeting many years ago *
You know that rallying lark we’re quite good at – great publicity etc.
Maybe we should stick to that and forget about F1 ………..
?
“In F1 however he isn’t shy to lie and obfuscate to deny the competition parity on the engine sector.”…
That comment borders on being slanderous. Why should he bow to Horner and Marco’s media driven agenda by plastering this notion that the engines are frozen and there’s no scope for development. Stop being a hypocrite, because had the Renault people done a better job and provided Redbull with something that would’ve seen Seb maintain his run of domination, I’m sure you wouldn’t be screaming for them to give up their advantage. So stop crying foul and throwing your anger and frustration at the opposition. They did what they had to and are reaping the rewards for their hardwork. Furthermore, where does it says that they’re entitled to allow the others the right to parity? That’s just silly.
Someone should’ve told the Renault engineers to stop dipping their balls in the swimming pool whilst the Merc engineers were working hard back at the factory.
Seriously Hippo, it’s one thing for people to read your rants, but the DN&C section is not the place for that. Keep your personal opinions and rants to your designated column.
It’s easy to do a good job with 500 people when the opposition has 250.
That’s a ridiculous argument hippo. You could have twice the work force and resources and still put out an inferior product than those with half (what was Toyota’s reward for throwing millions at trying to win in F1). It didn’t affect Alonso and Renault when they won back to back titles against a Ferrari team that had all the resources and manpower at their disposal.
All of a sudden these are now things that you’re not happy with, why weren’t you troubled by this from 2010 to 2013? Mmmm I wonder why?
Maybe you should tell Todt and Bernie that they should see to it that there’s a limit to the amount of people each team should employ, that should solve the problem.
The duplicity of your argumentation really takes the cake. First of all, Toyota’s Millions were wasted because they had an inept management and used an inferior wind tunnel.
As for Alonso and Renault winning. First of all, Alonso was in his prime against an ageing Schumacher and 2005 in particular the rules had been tailor-made to nobble Ferrari and Schumacher to end the dominance that threatened to drive away viewers.
Why didn’t I call out between 2010 and 2013? Because there was no need to. The Ferrari was the best car in 2010 (at least in the hands of Alonso). The fact that RB won the title is solely down to the fact that Ferrari mucked up the race in Abu Dhabi.
In 2012 the title should have gone to Lewis as for most of the season the McLaren was the better car, but they mucked it up mainly through dodgy pit stops and lacking reliability.
The four years of RB domination is a myth. They were dominant in 2011 and 2013, the two years where the EBD (2011) and the ersatz EBD (2013, through Renault’s 4-cylinder mode) made the difference.
“As for Alonso and Renault winning. First of all, Alonso was in his prime against an ageing Schumacher and 2005 in particular the rules had been tailor-made to nobble Ferrari and Schumacher to end the dominance that threatened to drive away viewers.”….
Are you saying that Alonso won in 05 because Schumi was getting old? Mmmm don’t think the Alonso fans will like that comment at all.
Ferrari best car in 2010, are you kidding me??? Stop it hippo, humour doesn’t suit you.
Schumi was starting to lose some of his speed, which was inevitable as he was in his mid-30s. After Ferrari got hobbled, 2005 was thus Raikkonen vs. Alonso at their peaks, and like 2012, McLaren/Mercedes’ lack of reliability cost them the title, as it had in 2003.
That year was similar to 2010 and 2012, as winning it made Ferrari look even more dominant than they were in reality, like Red Bull in 2012. They almost lost 2010 to reliability, while 2009 simply came too early for Vettel – 2011-13 Vettel would have easily sealed it.
What is remarkable is how he raced himself back into shape in his 40s. In 2011 and 2012, he was outpacing Rosberg at some points of the season, but the 2011 Mercedes was nowhere, and that’s when they decided to change it around, but it came too late for Schumi to win another race.
2010 Ferrari and 2012 McLaren as the best cars in those years?!?!!
I’ll file that one under ‘heavy overreach’.
I’m not a huge fan of Simon Fullers group, but what critics inc The Judge always forget by droning on about Beckham, is that AFTER joining XIX Andy Murray finally won two majors and the Olympics.
So, one picks their precedent to fit ones ideas, Judge included.
was that due to XiX
or to his change in coaching ?
I think Murray just finally hit his peak, helped by Lendl, and now is on the gradual downslope.. but at least he got there, and made it count to win those ‘big 3’ events. What I wonder is who will follow Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic?
Dimitrov, Raonic, Nishikori. Though Djokovic will be around for some years yet.
Not sure about Dimitrov but would add Cilic to the list – but yes, Djokovic will dominate for a while, especially as Nadal is so injury prone.
If Djokovic is passing his physical peak (and he has a lot of major 2nd places to show for it, like Lendl, despite being number 1 for a good few years now), do you think he can still beat those guys even if they are at their respective peaks? I’d like to see Novak win a few more majors. Cilic also won the US Open.
I’ve already been tweeting to Mercedes, Mercedes AMG and Mercedes F1 that Toto wanted parity in DTM but sticks 2 fingers up at F1 when they want the same. So I urge you all to send as many tweets as possible to Mercedes about how it makes their brand look bad and how can they take it in DTM but not give it in F1.
Get tweeting folks
Sorry, I don’t think you can compare both scenarios. I’d assume, no not assume, I’m sure the cost in DTM to develop the aero is in no way compared to that of developing aero in F1 much less engines.
Mercedes dominance in DTM was declining long before Toto took over and even came under more threat when BMW returned. Also the aero regulations in DTM weren’t just implemented this season, if I’m correct i think this is the 2nd of 3rd season under the new regulations.
Didn’t Mercedes win the DTM title in, I think it was as recently as 2012 with that Canadian guy, can’t remember his name, who later left and went to BMW?
No they didn’t. That Canadian guy is named Bruno Spengler and won in his first year for BMW. Audi won last year’s title and this year the win went to BMW again.
“Didn’t Mercedes win the DTM title in, I think it was as recently as 2012 with that Canadian guy, can’t remember his name, who later left and went to BMW?”….
That statement alone should have been enough to illustrate I wasnt 100% certain. But ok hippo I’ve gone ahead and done my research, the last time Mercedes won the title was with Di Resta in 2010 and haven’t won it since, when Norbert Haug replaced again? So clearly Mercedes not winning cannot be blamed on Toto alone.
Never said that. But when he gladly accepts exceptions made for Mercedes in DTM to let them catch up to their superior opponents, it makes him look like a bloody hypocrite when he blocks the same in F1 where Merc has the advantage.
Like i said Hippo, the new aero rules in DTM was there for sometime before the other teams agreed to the change, this is a completely diferent set of circumstances. The cost implications are not the same and this is the 1st season of a very new set of rules and technology and would be a knee jerk reaction to go into another spending frenzy, especially with all thats taking place right now.
The aero rules are one year old as they are part of the harmonizing the rules with Japan’s SuperGT for the 2015 season.
@ FH
” … harmonizing the rules with Japan’s SuperGT for the 2015 season. ”
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Couple of questions ? For info.
Didn’t it also include the chassis too ?
and –
What about the harmonization with IMSA rules ?
Have they managed to achieve that yet ?
DTM and SuperGT run to the same technical rules in the future, meaning that SuperGT cars are eligible to run in DTM and vice versa. The next step will be harmonizing rules with the ‘murricans (I think USCC) so for the first time since the early nineties we could see Ford Mustangs in DTM again 😀
@Fortis96 it’s not the financial implications that matter, it is the fact that their competitors in DTM allowed them the opportunity at all. In sporting terms it’s definitely the pot calling the kettle black.
Couldn’t Toto and Mercedes wait ’til after the Feb 2015 homologation, to see how much Renault and Ferrari have closed the gap (and Honda too), and then if they’re as far behind as this year, allow an unfreeze for 2015?
Are they bringing the engine limit to 4 next year? If so, that would just leave 3 windows max (and more likely just 2) in which to deliver a new engine spec.
Bernies a canny one, “its probably my fault, blah blah, I’ll give up some of my share if the big teams will too”. Well done Bernie, you know they won’t so you get to maintain the status quo, and the cash, whilst looking repentant and like you are trying to help…. The corupt old sod still has it. Lets hope not for long though.
I know someone who’s a fully professional Red Bull ‘athlete’ – Red Bull definitely help out in terms of teaching anyone they’re sponsoring how to deal with the public, how to handle interviews, how to conduct themselves in a business sense and so on. As Vettel’s been progressing through the ranks with Red Bull and consequently not only being paid pretty handsomely but also benefiting from their work attracting other sponsors, it’s not too surprising that he hasn’t required a manager/agent.
I know Hamilton was helped through the various motorsport ranks, but I doubt that he was involved in any kind of setup as detailed and thorough as how Red Bull deal with their star athletes.
I’m not saying that that’s either a pro or a con for Vettel or Hamilton, but to suggest that the agent/manager-less route works fine because Vettel hasn’t required one is fairly misleading.
Mr Hippo, your news article is disingenuous at points, and in writern purely to cause as many comments as possible, maybe to just stroke your own ego? definitely one the websites off days, shame.
Maybe the news should just be writern or edited by the Judge, rather than judge lite.
Or you could just stick to articles, which I can choose to read or not, but with the news it’s different, I want to read it, just without the hippo under tones.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, and I don’t doubt your knowledge or passion, but you’re very marmite. Just tone it down for the news articles.
fair criticism, although I would be interested in which undertones bothered you. I doubt the OTD Ligh gave much reason for criticism. A bit more details would help. I write in the style I think, so to learn what turns people off would help prevent future problems.
That’s easy. Criticism at hamilton expense hahaha
So Lewis is ditching XIX ? That’s effing great news, the whole circus around him is caused by Simon Fuller and his band of money-making gangsters. Now if he could get rid of that Pussycat Doll singer as well it would be fantastic, we’ll get a focused Hamilton back !