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Previously on TheJudge13:
#F1 Features: The deflation of puncture-gate
#F1 Race Review: Gloves Come Off At Mercedes As Ricciardo Reaps Rewards
#F1 Polls: How would you rate the 2014 FORMULA 1 SHELL BELGIAN GRAND PRIX?
A serious warning
There has been a growing tendency, especially in the last two days, of accusing people of racism when their own arguments run out. We’ve seen things like KKK, nazi references and other verbal bovine excrement. Knock it off – you know who you are. Also, if you do not agree with what the editors write, you have every right to criticise them in a civil manner and argue a counter-point. References to the editor’s ancestry, race or the intimate preferences of their mothers are not acceptable arguments. And if you still choose to ignore these simple rules, do not be surprised if your comment goes to /dev/null.
OTD Lite: 1991 – Schumacher debut heralds a new talent in F1
Wolff – Nico didn’t crash into Lewis deliberately
Alonso lost hybrid power during Belgium GP
Ricciardo gone hunting (GMM)
Vettel’s new engineer (GMM)
OTD Lite: 1991 – Schumacher debut heralds a new talent in F1
Bertrand Gachot had been imprisoned for two months for spraying a London cabbie with CS gas during an altercation. Mercedes sportscar driver, Michael Schumacher was ushered in to the vacant Jordan seat for the 1991 Belgian Grand Prix and another chapter of motorsport history was launched.
On this day, Schumacher started his first Grand Prix from seventh on the grid at a circuit he had never driven before. His team-mate, the vastly experienced Andrea De Cesaris, could only manage 11th in qualifying. He had caught the attention of the F1 teams and following his brief drive for Jordan was signed by the Benetton team.
His debut lasted barely half a lap before his clutch gave out but his ability was already beyond question. Which surprised many in the Mercedes establishment who felt his two young Mercedes compatriots, Heinz Harald Frenzten and Karl Wendlinger, were faster drivers compared to Michael. Proof if any were needed that at the top level, the psychological make up is as important as actual ability.
The Jackal
Wolff – Nico didn’t crash into Lewis deliberately
After the Belgian Grand Prix, a meeting was held in the Mercedes motorhome between Toto Wollf, Niki Lauda, the Enforcer and the two drivers Nico Rosberg and Lewis Hamilton. Reports in the media have sensationally reported what Hamilton told them that Rosberg has deliberately maintained position to crash into his team-mate.
Considering both Austrians were vocal in their condemnation of Rosberg shortly after the race had finished, when Wolff spoke to press after the briefing his stance had changed considerably.
“Nico said he wanted to keep his line – he wanted to make a point by keeping to his line and believed that Lewis would have left him the room – obviously something that didn’t happen. There followed a very lively discussion between us but it is not true he deliberately tried to crash. But it is still a foolish thing to have done.”
“Ultimately the final standings do not change and as far as I’m concerned the accident is still unacceptable. But Nico was not willing to take the escape route to avoid the collision which is not good.”
“We had a collision on the second lap that could have been avoided. Nico wanted to attack and he shouldn’t have but it showed he was not willing to give up position. I’m sure with the benefit of hindsight, Nico would not repeat what he has done.”
Comment from a second editor:
The handling of the incident showed that Mercedes pushed out the wrong guy at the end of last season, when Brawn walked away. Lauda’s conduct was downright unacceptable and showed that there is much more manipulation going on behind the scenes than the general public is supposed to know.
But the cover was blown by Lauda, the cantankerous Austrian masquerading as ‘F1 Expert’ on German channel RTL. When someone in the comments shows too much of a bias towards a driver, he’s quickly labeled a fanboy. According to that logic, Mercedes is partially run by a rabid Hamfosi as Lauda does not even try to hide his bias towards Lewis Hamilton.
When the Brit disobeyed a clear teamorder in Hungary – something that was plainly obvious to the world by having the team radio replayed to the world audience – Lauda went ahead when asked about Lewis’s actions and stated that he would not make a comment on a drivers’ decision without having talked to him privately. Half an hour later he had changed his tune and blasted the own team for giving a team order in the first place.
What a difference four weeks make. The national anthems had barely stopped playing on the rostrum and Lauda was already barking into every microphone he could get hold of that it was all totally Nico’s fault and how unacceptable it all was from a team’s perspective. Since we had seen where Nico was all the time, there is no chance that Lauda had spoken to Rosberg privately. There seems to be a clear double standard here, especially as Lauda’s statement contrasted sharply with what the stewards had decided. There is nothing more bizarr that witnessing Christian Horner defending Nico Rosberg, while the drivers’ employer publicly blasts him before he had the chance to explain himself.
Apart from the shambolic management, Mercedes are running into a big problem. Realistically, only one of their drivers can win the title – Lewis. We have to keep in mind that Mercedes F1 have to have their budget approved by a board of directors and those will ask rather uncomfortable questions about why they hired Lewis for gobs of money when the much cheaper employee could get the job done just as well. Like many Lauda & Co had expected Nico to be there or thereabouts, but certainly not thirty points ahead in the championship standings. The fact that they have extended Nico’s contract, but not Lewis’s yet makes it clear that in Merc’s world Lewis wins the title and Nico does so after the Brit’s departure. They didn’t expect Nico to grow a pair and try to do it this year. There is fireworks to come.
Alonso lost hybrid power during Belgium GP
That Fernando Alonso is recognised as arguably the finest driver of this generation is beyond dispute. In countless polls of the public or people in the paddock he generally is seen as number one. To the point that recently he said he would rather more titles than the respect of everyone.
But with Alonso there is also a penchant for the dramatics. In 2012, with his staggering campaign almost bringing him his long sought after third title, he began to believe his hype and generally played up to his out-driving his steed into positions it didn’t deserve to be.
His recent comments after Germany stated that he had problems with his car and was having to brake 300 metres before corners, yet he was fighting Ricciardo throughout the latter laps of the event. What nobody asked was if young Danny was having to lift off at that distance for similar reasons. An F1 car can stop from 200mph in considerably less than a 100 metres, so surely the Spanish Samurai was easy prey and in Britain he had had problems with his car and fought a ‘healthy’ Vettel to the flag.
Once again, during the Belgian race, Alonso suffered further problems which he had to overcome with his unquestionable brilliance. A defective battery brought about a five second penalty which caused his placing being outside the top three. “Without this penalty, I could have got on the podium with ease. With Hamilton out of the game, we could have aimed for the podium. We had a good pace – Raikkonen fought until the end for the podium. Unfortunately my car wouldn’t start and our top speed is our weak point so we knew we wouldn’t be able to overtake.”
Now Alonso revealed his true problems that he had to overcome. He had lost the use of the hybrid systems which accounted for around 140bhp less. “Also throughout the weekend we had fuel flow problems too. Things are improving slowly because the parts we fit are making a difference but with Monza coming up, the circuit does not make our life easier – all those long straights.”
Or in non samurai influenced language: Kimi only finished ahead of me because I had a penalty, no straightline speed and my power unit wasn’t behaving as it should.
Ricciardo gone hunting (GMM)
Daniel Ricciardo has declared himself in the hunt for the 2014 world championship.
Before the title war between Mercedes teammates Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg exploded in Belgium, no one would have bet against a dominant victory for one or the other of the silver-clad duo. But as their personal battle spilled into on-track carnage at Spa-Francorchamps, Red Bull’s surprise newcomer Ricciardo grinned through the melee to secure his second consecutive race victory.
It was the Australian’s third win of the season and his career, and a look at the drivers’ standings shows he is now only 35 points behind Hamilton for second.
“The fact that Daniel only has one win less than Nico is really remarkable,” said team boss Christian Horner.
Closing down the 64 point gap to championship leader Rosberg is more unlikely, but it cannot be forgotten that the winner of November’s Abu Dhabi finale will secure no fewer than 50 points. It is enough of a concern for Mercedes that, after Sunday’s clash, the dominant Brackley based team is rethinking its policy on standing team orders.
As was expected, Mercedes’ engine advantage shone through on the long stretches at Spa-Francorchamps, but Red Bull’s Renault-powered car also looked quick in a straight line on Sunday.
“I guess on TV you could see that the rear wing was pretty simple, there wasn’t much to it,” said Ricciardo, “but obviously it was a good package here and we’ll see if the Monza wing can get any smaller!
“Monza we know will be tricky again but obviously the package we brought here was pretty racy, and then I think Singapore and Suzuka will be pretty good for us,” he added.
Ricciardo acknowledged that winning the championship is a long shot, but he insisted he will keep pushing anyway.
“If I’m within fifty (points) coming into Abu Dhabi then it’s still mathematically possible — we’ll keep fighting.”
The added bonus for Ricciardo is that he has achieved his success alongside none other than reigning quadruple world champion Sebastian Vettel, and his demeanour on Sunday indicated he is yet to feel the weight of the growing pressure.
“I’m enjoying it more than ever,” he said. “Each race that goes on I’m having more and more fun.
“The in-team battle has, let’s say, gone really well. I think the team has been really pleased and I’ve been pleased so we’re in a good place.”
German television commentator and former driver Marc Surer echoes Ricciardo’s claim that the title cannot be ruled out, but he also acknowledged that overcoming the might of Mercedes’ dominance is unlikely.
“That would be amazing,” he said, “and I almost can’t imagine it. Of course, if it carries on like this and looking at the (double) points situation for the final race, then it is possible. But I don’t think so.
“There will be races again where Mercedes will clearly dominate, driving all alone at the front of the field,” added Surer.
Vettel’s new engineer (GMM)
Struggling world champion Sebastian Vettel will get a new race engineer for the 2015 season.
This year defending his fourth consecutive drivers’ title, the German has notably struggled in 2014 alongside new teammate Daniel Ricciardo.
Australian Ricciardo drove through the Mercedes shenanigans on Sunday to win his second consecutive race — his third of the season and his career.
In contrast, and earning many multiples more millions, Vettel has yet to break through this season, and at the drivers’ circuit Spa-Francorchamps he finished fifth and almost a minute behind the sister car.
Vettel complained afterwards of a probable car defect, telling German reporters he felt he had been sent into “war with a wooden stick”.
But that is not necessarily why Vettel’s race engineer Guillaume Roquelin, known affectionately as ‘Rocky’, will no longer be in that role with the 27-year-old in 2015.
“These are restructuring measures to improve the team,” Dr Helmut Marko told German television Sky at Spa, responding to the reports about ‘Rocky’ that emerged on Sunday.
Team technical boss Adrian Newey is stepping back after Christmas, but Red Bull will not directly replace him.
“I think that at the track in Paul Monaghan, ‘Rocky’ and Simon (Rennie) we have three very able technical people and I see no reason why they shouldn’t be able to take those decisions,” Newey had said earlier in Belgium.
Germany’s Welt newspaper claims the promoted ‘Rocky’ will be replaced at Vettel’s side by Gianpiero Lambiase, currently Sergio Perez’s engineer at Force India.
Marko said: “Sebastian knows who is coming — he was involved in the talks.”
Meanwhile, despite being nominated by DTM driver Timo Glock for the now-famous ‘ice bucket challenge’, Vettel has turned it down.
“I think I’ll skip the shower and just give a donation,” he is quoted by the Swiss newspaper Blick.
” while the drivers’ employer publicly blasts him before he had the chance to explain himself.”….
Think you should’ve wrote “employers” Toto also publicly blast him even before he got a chance to explain himself.
Re A serious warning: I completely agree. A good discussion is fun. But what’s going on now is just mad. We don’t all have to agree with each other. But as said before if you disagree with the articles it is permitted to write your own. (Wich is the beauty of this site) Yet I believe some just come here to attack the writers because they have an other opinion… without courage to give their own opinion in a well written article.
So would said person or persons opinion carry more validity if they wrote an article about their opinions rather than just doing so in the comments section? Isn’t that the purpose of the comments section, to give ones opinions on the DN&C?
Disclaimer: I’m just asking questions and my comments are not meant to offend or antagonise anyone.
Very simple. If your opinion is short – write it in the comments. If it is long, write an article. “You wrote bollocks” or “Troll13” do not qualify as valid opinions.
And some persons feel obligated to comment on everything with more or less the same answer, everytime. I have nothing against comments (i only comment myself) but if comments start with a sentence to attack the writer directly than my first thought is why not try writing an article yourself. (And I’ve read some of those yesterday) and to give an example directly based on you, f*rtis, you yourself always say no matter what you say I won’t change my opinion. First of all that’s not how a discussion works, second of all why do you believe that the ones you feel the need to discuss with would change theirs if you start off like that? And changing your mind about something isn’t a weakness… you know somewhere in your first weeks here you had a lot against you, and then you started to comment well behaved and you started to think before you commented. And suddenly the people who where “against” you started to discuss with you in a civilised way. Wasn’t that in every way more pleasant? And this is only an example. I’m not saying that you’re the only one who does this or that you are the worst. But seeing this is a direct answer to your comment I felt like it was the best way to make my point clear. Just like you here above I dont mean to be offensive.
I’ve enjoyed reading and commenting on this blog since its inception but it has become frustrating to read some of the fanboi worship comments. The fanatical support some fans feel for drivers is really beyond my understanding; I enjoy F1 because of the technology and speed of the cars and the skill of the drivers. I am old enough to be comfortable as myself and don’t have the need to worship some ‘hero’. Unfortunately some commenters here have become serious emotionally involved with a driver and are, seemingly, unable to have a reasonable discussion about the races and the drivers.
I stopped commenting here some months ago but have been lurking and watching what has been going on; it’s not a happy situation. I hope tempers and feelings will calm and we can go back to having actually discussions without flame wars or the invocation of Godwin’s Law. A bunch of you out there need to seriously grow up and stop depending on the success of drivers to feel good. Really people, get a grip; it’s not that serious, it’s just entertainment.
I suggest you check your sources, this is not true:
“He had lost the use of the hybrid systems which accounted for around 140bhp less”
He didn’t said that he lost the hydrid system for the whole race, only after the pit stops, and he didn’t say 140bhp, he said other figure, not 140, you should recheck and go to the original source to correct your information, hint: Spanish TV.
I’m guessing that Ferrari’s national press would be wrong too, they reported Alonso said he lost 140hp too
I suspect he probably only lost the 140hp on the last lap when he fell way back from the car in front?
That was severe front wing damage, the whole left front side of it was wiped off on Vettel’s rear right tyre at La Source.
Ferrari’s press statement said they lost 140hp..
link?
Re: Warnings.
I struggle to see what knowledgeable/credible information or opinions these people can offer if they are able to find themselves sinking to cursing and nationalism.
I say ban the IPs of these people. They are Philistines. (Oh s**t, I’m being racist now!) [Oh no, I swore too!]
What a cruel world…
My quick two cents is… Hamilton doesn’t know the modern rules of overtaking/defending? I could believe that.
I always get great flash backs of Hamilton v Petrov in Malaysia 2010 (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xctz1o_malaysia-hamilton-overtakes-petrov_auto)
What was the reason for the no move after defending once rule?
It was to prevent drivers chopping across in the braking zone.
Hamilton vs Petrov was never the intended reason for that rule.
In that case Hamilton moved after the exit of a corner to break the tow and in actually fact wasn’t blocking Petrov.
The FIA decided there was no action to be taken and amended the rules eventually to include breaking of a tow.
The rules were all about the braking zone originally so there is no argument there.
I understand your point John. Although I believe there was an investigation?
Anyhow, if the rules weren’t ambiguous, we’d be that much closer to watching DRS passes all year!
I have been coming to this site since its first few months and it’s undoubtedly the best. However, I have to admit that the past few months I have become a bit disappointed. I’m above all a McLaren fan and then a Hamilton fan and I know that some will brand what I’m about to say as fanboy laments.
Any article about Hamilton brings people, brings ratings. Even more so if it’s about disfavouring Hamilton in the article. The past few months articles have a Rosberg-tinted front. They lack impartiality in my perspective and certain lines are there to incite emotions and paragraphs of commentary.
The Spa incident could very easily be viewed as such. Rosberg knew it was a ricky move and did not want to back off so as to break Lewis’ morale in his racecraft. When you admit that you did’t take avoiding action, it’s like saying I didn’t avoid punching him. He should have moved his head. Rules and stewards decisions are nonsense. Fact of the matter Rosberg caused a collision, he’ll get no punishment and he’ll win the title. There are several examples where ruthless drivers won titles.
The tone of the article and comments all started to go downhill from Monaco.
Disclaimer: just making an observation and comment is not meant to offend or antagonise anyone.
So 2013, “Still I rise” piece was good good then?
As for your lament about lack of impartiality. I remember quite well that I once said the same and got ridiculed for it. And, I might add, you and several others weren’t quite so distressed when Vettel used to be flavour of the month constantly. It’s quite a bit different when its your driver who’s taking the flak isn’t it?
Take my advice – write an article, well researched, and debunk some of the arguments you perceive as inflammatory or wrong. Maybe you can convince a few more people that way, rather than just lamenting the fact.
Why try to do something as arbitrary as defend a driver? They are human, and in this case quite privileged. They are able to defend themselves.
Still amazed people take insults meant for others personally. Especially athletes.
I also think it sets one up for a fall.
I’d suggest that because you don’t agree with an article you’re suggesting its quality has decreased. That’s not the case.
For me yesterday was a racing incident. Just because Hamilton clearly has more fans than Rosberg doesn’t mean that articles should be slanted. The main media have to go down that route, others do not as they don’t rely on interviews and PR to make their living.
I await the day when Lewis does this to someone, because I think we all know that the same people who defend him now will defend him then.
PS did I say racing incident?
I think the challenge is for the writers (not the commenters) to present impartial analysis of incidents, but it’s debatable how successful they’ve been at that, given that they have understandable and obvious personal favorites, and not just at this site. Keith Collantine hates Kimi and dislikes Hamilton. Hippo loves Vettel. His Honour dislikes Hamilton but loves Webber and seems to back Rosberg b/c he’s up against Hamilton.
& Everyone but me seems to hate Maldonado…lol.
“I think the challenge is for the writers (not the commenters) to present impartial analysis of incidents, but it’s debatable how successful they’ve been at that”
Indeed. I believe Judge’s writings (NOT Hippo Rants) generally strive for impartiality, but we’re ultimately all fallible humans and occasionally there may be slips through the cracks. I still think that the best F1 content is right here at TJ13..
Yeah, sometimes the best the writer can do – even the commenter – is to be aware of their own personal bias or preference, and either acknowledge it to the readership.
Trying to mitigate it is nice, but, like you said, not even necessary for op/eds or rants.
I have to say, I think the Judge found the perfect happy balance w/ the GMM feed news items – appending TJ13’s commentary to the (GMM) news blurb is great. Much preferable to just publishing feed-content w/o any TJ13 treatment.
every other site wrote that story…..
RE: Alonso lost hybrid power during Belgium GP
I never really paid much attention to it before but is this place trying to gain views by ridiculing Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso?
…. LDM, Ecclestone, Horner, Raikkoen, Boullier, Crashtor etc etc…. Smart popularity strategy, have a pop at everyone being disingenuous in F1
Point me to just one obviously racist reference to Lewis. I haven’t see one. How do you reckon that someone shows ‘a hint’ of racism? Is not liking Lewis a sign of racism? Is not liking Kamui Kobayashi racist because he happens to be asian? How does your ‘racism radar’ work? What are the signs that someone is afflicted with it?
Guess you didn’t go and read the comments made by R/T like I suggested.
I read them all right now in case I’ve missed something. But I didn’t miss something. R/T has some strong opinions about the way Lewis is behaving in public, but that does not constitute racism. In fact your constant claims that he is racist is bordering on slander, so knock it off please. There are four people routinely checking the comments for inappropriate content. Those people are from America, Blightly, South Africa and Germany. Unless all four of them are raging racsists and xenophobes, they all disagree with your accusations against R/T.
What does an anti-Hamilton bias have to do with racism? This site is also ‘biased’ against Vettel, Alonso, Räikkönen, Sutil, Maldonado, Erikson, Vergne, Piquet, Ecclestone, Briatore, Paddy Lowe, Luca Cordero di Montezemolo, Toto Wolff, Niki Lauda…
We will just keep deleting comments with the word race in them…. People will soon learn,…
That messes up the comment section
Ok we’ll just mod them…. God I love your OCD tendencies for tidiness… 😉
nothing wrong with OCD tendencies
wrong with OCD tendencies nothing
with OCD tendencies nothing wrong
OCD tendencies nothing wrong with
tendencies nothing wrong with OCD
(Every line reads well to me.)
@SIS: Are you the lady on the train in Sydney?
Hmm. I really enjoyed the race.
Is that allowed? I’m confused.
Lol…
Haha, brilliant!
“Hey everyone did you see the awesome r**e yesterday?” 😛
— removed: foul language and direct insults —
Criticism of Hamilton, however well reasoned and based on factual evidence, is dismissed as racism by some of his most virulent fans. Had that happen to me on the Autosport board a couple of years ago so I left. Proud father of two biracial adults BTW.
Just happened by the blog of a former McLaren mechanic who goes by the moniker of F1elvis. He also noted that based on the racing directives Lewis should have yielded to Nico. So TJ13 is not the only website acknowledging that fact.
MOD – all comments referring to racism are now moderated. I know every writer who contributes to this site and none are racist. I will not continue to give this explanation… We will just delete the comment and leave the word ‘MOD’
Further, as far as I’m aware, none of us is God who can see into the true hearts and minds of others, and judge their motives…
We have published both pro and anti Rosberg analysis of ‘the move’ … So move on…. And appreciate what TJ13 represents….
Wait, so you’re just moderating the comments that acknowledge that racism exists – even subtly – in the hearts/minds of some commenters/readers, but you’ll leave up the comments that actually include crypto-racism?
I think whoever moderated my post, you completely misread what I stated, not that the “writers who contribute to the site” above the line (ATL) are racist, but rather, that there is subtle, sometimes even unperceived racism underpinning some of the comments posted Below the Line (BTL) by readers (not the story authors/contributors).
Alonso would’ve lapped the entire field twice if he drove a Merc
No. Not in spa. For some reason he’s not the best there…
*Raikkonen
..and as he managed over half the race on one set of medium tyres, he would also have done one less pit stop than Rosberg.
Do I need to elaborate when Lewis is judged on his earings, rapper friends and lifestyle rather than his talent? the microscope this site places him under speaks volumes about the bias around here. The lack of impartiality is what draws the racist accusations. As I said there is noi smoke without fire. For the record the overtly racist stuff is generally from commentators but the judge is more than happy to fan the flames it seems. The lust for page views must be all consuming.
That’s exactly the sort of reply I was expecting. What you are basically saying is “Their is no obvious racism here, I’m just trying to contrive a racist scenario to guilt-trip you into taking a more pro-Hamilton stance.”
Won’t happen. Lewis is not judged for his lifestyle because of his skin-colour. He’s judged for it because he shoves it down everybody’s throat on twitter and in the yellow press. If you make your private life a publicly visible as Lewis does, you have to live with the fact that your audience is going to provide feedback, even if it is not to your liking.
There is a reason why Vettel, Alonso, Rosberg and others keep their private lives to themselves. The criticism that Lewis is often subjected to is that he’s distracting himself with off-track shenigans and rightly so. That has nothing to do with his ethnic roots.
Maybe he should adopt the same principles as Bernie with his views on social media. But given that he’s the minority within the sports, it’s hard not court media attention. Are you suggesting that after each race weekend, he should lock himself in a vault and only come out when it’s time to race?
If he’s not being judged by his lifestyle, then why is it such a big problem to you and everyone what he does in his spare time? What exactly is it that he’s doing outside of F1 that’s distracting him from doing his job?
He has won 5 races and sit 2nd in the standings, are you saying that he could’ve been leading if he wasn’t being distracted by outside influences? Are those outside reasons why his car failed in Australia? Are they the reasons why his brakes failed in Germany? Are they the reasons why his car caught on fire in Hungary? Are they the reason why he was taken out of the race by his teammate?
Your comments about distraction is based on the past. So far this season, he has been nothing but focused on trying to win another WDC. There’s no more entourage surrounding him, we’ve only seen his dad and brother once this season, we’ve not seen his dogs at the track either.
I follow him on social media just like I do other drivers and nothing he says or does is any different to the others. Isn’t that the purpose of social media, to engage with the fans and to bring a younger audience to the sport?. As for the ‘yellow press’ reference, where’s your supporting evidence to prove that he’s courting media attention? Show us an article or picture of him stumbling out of night club drunk as a skunk on the eve of a GP weekend? Half the pics that’s published in the press, are taken from his tweeter or IG accounts. Did you read his latest article on the BBC F1 page, where he states the reasons why he chose to go to somewhere a remote as Colarado when he has free time away from racing? If not I think you should, because that’s not the action of someone courting media attention or trying to ‘shove’ his lifestyle down everyone’s throat as you have claimed.
Why are my comments being moderated?
Disclaimer: just making a comment and it was meant to offend or antagonise anyone.
“Why are my comments being moderated?”
Because after you completely went off your rocker yesterday and asked to be blocked, I did so. Your comments today have a much more civil tone about them and therefore were all approved so far.
As for Lewis being focused this year. Is media-manipulation a sign of being focused? Is constantly provoking and smack-talking your team mate over the press a sign of focus? Mind games are the weapons of the desperate.
“Media manipulation”
Is this pre or post Monaco? Which driver, team principle or car manufacturer doesn’t use and manipulate the media to their advantage? Isn’t that part of the ‘political’ game that is F1? Would you have been happy had he just kept to the PR line? Heck even the judge manipulate the media for his own advantage. Furthermore, who’s better at manipulating the press than Alonso?
The sport is dying and that’s not only due to the governance of the sport, but also the BS that surrounds what driver can or can’t say. So if a driver can’t express his honest opinions (just as long as it’s not inflammatory) then we should just ban the media all together.
How does he shove it in people throat? He puts his pics on facebook? Does that get broadcast to your device automatically?
You are just making a baseless rant. If the media are preoccupied with Hamilton you should accuse the media of shoving things in your throat.
The media are preoccupied with most drivers. It’s how much you let them that makes the difference. How come that Vettel and Alonso do not appear in the public lime light this often – because they guard their private life better.
But again I ask you…..
Provide evidence of the media intrusion in his life.
I don’t know if you noticed, but with the advent of the smart, it’s almost impossible to keep someone life out of the medias peering eyes.
So if any driver goes out to dinner, the movies or even to the shop and someone takes a pic and it ends up in the press, they’re courting media attention?
We hear little about Vettel’s life don’t we? If a four time WDC manages to keep his life where it belongs, why doesn’t Lewis? Same with Alonso – his private life seems to be shrouded in mystery. So it is possible if you want. The problem is, Lewis has been using the media, he has encouraged them to become obsessed with him and now when he doesn’t want to be under such close scrutiny, he can’t turn back time.
@Fortis96 “Provide evidence of the media intrusion in his life”
I try to be imparcial.
The most visited tabloid online is dailymail.co.uk
Search results in dailymail for “Lewis Hamilton” with filter “TV&Showbiz” and “last year” show 121 articles.
“Jenson Button” show 37 articles.
“Sebastian Vettel” show 15 articles.
The comparison is only valid with Jenson Button, because is a British tabloid is logical to focus in British personalities.
Even that the majority of articles is about their girlfriends, Lewis Hamilton is the driver with more “TV&Showbiz” articles in the most visited tabloid online.
@Fat Hippo: “What you are basically saying is “Their is no obvious racism here, I’m just trying to contrive a racist scenario to guilt-trip you into taking a more pro-Hamilton stance.””
there were clearly racist comments, and then there is a thing called subtle racism, which manifests itself in critique of “rapper friends” or the mocking of slang which hamilton in fact doesn’t even speak,. just because you don’t want to see it doesn’t mean it is “contriving a racist scenario”, it just means that you choose to be ignorant to the subtleties of racism, because it is something that doesn’t affect you. R/T’s post was clearly racist, and that is what caused the accusations.
apart from this, i too feel that the judge is deliberately stirring controversies for page views, comments and clicks, and it doesn’t do this blog any good. i came here for the informed debate and because, as someone else already pointed out, there were strong opinions but civilized discussions, except for the occasional hippo rant. at the moment, these are no longer possible. this is not only because of the articles, but also because of some commentators. i’m not speaking about fortis, because while he is defending hamilton, he mainly does it in a civilzed manner. people like still i surprise on the other hand are actively trolling the comments, they comment to provoke a reaction and bash on “hamilfosi”, not because they want to have a discussion, which is a pitty, because still i surprise showed that if he wants to, he can positively contribute to the debate on here. his posts should be moderated if he isn’t willing to change his tone. and i can only warn the judge to continue down this path, because it will drive alot of regulars away and what will remain is an aggressive troll fest. that would be a pitty too.
“people like still i surprise on the other hand are actively trolling the comments, they comment to provoke a reaction and bash on “hamilfosi”, not because they want to have a discussion, which is a pitty, because still i surprise showed that if he wants to, he can positively contribute to the debate on here.”
I would include one certain fat hippo in the phrase above. More often than not his comments initiate with a subtle (or not) personal insult, before veering into provoking reactions and bashing on “hamilfosi”, without any discernible intent to have a genuine discussion. It’s vain hope that the Judge would ever entertain to actively moderate Fat Hippo, especially when he goes aggressively haywire.
I don’t understand the argument which says a man has media coverage forced down their throats. It’s like looking at a overpriced item in a shop window, and declaring “what a rip off!”. No, it’s not, you’re not being ripped off, because you elect not to buy it, and if you did elect to purchase the overpriced item, your action declares that the price is acceptable to you.
I’m a Hamilton fan, for sure. His recreational activities and lifestyle don’t impress me, so I don’t follow them. It’s amazingly easy to only see the man as a driver.
This is such elementary level media comprehension, I’m amazed anyone here thinks such arguments have any value to them. Crikey, here’s a site that invites readers to exposit their views on racers and racing, and surprise: you get a wide variety of often strongly held views. Surely that alone, backdrop, hints to the reader that some care and attention is helpful in reading.. possibly the odd pinch of salt or humor in tolerance?
Somehow I just haven’t picked up directly on the alleged racism that’s referred to being rife among comments. I think I may be filtering it out, because on closer reading I perceive that people may be picking up on undertones, which could be simply a result of inelegant phrasing or less well sculpted argument. Some reactions I think are towards imaginary slights, and some comments appear to mean to stir controversy out of the barest of arguments. Maybe some are actually low level trolling, meaning to get a rise by subtle inflections or tone or voice. But I think there’s as much over sensitivity as there is hint of racism.
Maybe I need to read again some of the discussions. There’s a degree of pettiness, though, for sure, that’s spoiling what’s normally a thoroughly enjoyable repast of opinions. Have judicious deletions spared me from seeing the worst offenders?
I’m confused, because the worst offense I have witnessed so far has been a slide in the quality of debate that has one place left to sink: into adhominem, when arguments fail.
Surely, in any event, it’s the no great imposition to rise above trash talk, and effectively suffocate the offending commentary with a polite, maybe quizzical, eyes averted as they roll, silence, a kind reserved for stillborn rhetoric?
I started the site with the intention of letting it self moderate…. However… When a few commentators go to war with each other and fill the comments section with scores of daily posts…
Others are then deterred…
And so my laissez faire philosophy is difficult to maintain….
Sadly, I know some others who have been deterred, whom I can’t persuade presently. My guess is that the solution is simply to participate, as was the original intent, and trust the system will settle.
I think it’s done good, TJ, really. I don’t think, at least I hope it’s time to neatly turn on one’s metaphorical heels, away from the trash talk, and welcome back the renaissance repartee that was first genuinely invited. And genuinely delivered, in reply, with thanks. There’s a few I know who turned away, because of earlier concerns than this, which is a pity. Not paying attention for a long while, left me unable to argue any side of that coin. My only response is to see what I may constructively contribute, see were that may lead.*
I’d like to take a portrait, if you would permit, of some concerns I have regarding sponsorship that are bugging me. I don’t want to write a diatribe, a discourse on the usual detractors, but rather a hypothesis of hope: I’m interested in how to enact changes, rather than to accuse the sport of need to change, when that change is often too obvious for public announcement to not be taken as lip service. My fascination is with how to reposition the points of perception. How to make structural changes convey a coherent message, in absence of a fresh broom to sweep the yard. I’ve a fair bit of research quietly simmering away. Over that Joe’s I exhorted that collaboration is required, amongst teams, to revive sponsorship. In 1990 or so, Dennis set up a group offering sales and sakes advisory to other teams, which fascinates me. I don’t know if i’ll be able to learn anything about that, but the need I think is there again. It’s a exercise in thought I’m undertaking for myself, in any event, warm up for a tricky repositioning of a product I stand to loose by substantially, if I do not repair factors quite apart from my own operational disaster last year. I’m fascinated by the microcosm of credibility, when there’s been a failure to deliver? And by the need to curtail current and circuits of blame. I am all doom and gloom, about sponsorship in F1, not solely because sponsorship is changing far from what it was when a team name sponsor would pay the bills, not half a decade ago. If you’d allow my amateurishness, in the sense of sporting amateur, i’d be happy to drop you a draft. I’m working on the problem more generically, right now, historically a lot of my businesses has been akin to turnarounds.
Regards keeping amid on the, ahem, exuberance of comments: It’s no great surprise, that some, having been enticed to a site that declares to be a voice of the fan, will presume too much. That is the fault of the presumptuous, not the proposition. I see no reason, therefore, to change, but good reason to reaffirm the prerogative.
I’m quite taken aback, however, at how some seemingly familiar voices, have revealed to me, in recent weeks, of a predilection to forgo the slightest pretension of prosaic pubescence. A little shocked, actually. (my alliterations seem to have caught me like a twitch, I’m working on them, though.. they started as a very subtle attempt at puerile humor in mock criticism of what has been passed off as argument..)
*In life, I am may be all too ready to wipe a slate clean. Again and again. (there’s a personal reason, for that, historically) It could be argued that my woes in private last year, were caused by a disinclination to allow past behavior to be unforgiven. I was so terribly wrong. Any understudy of human nature would ridicule me, and I remain embarrassed. But there’s a poor joke, that scientific method requires more samples than just repeating one’s mistakes, hoping for a different outcome. I can wryly attest, that whilst repeating the same mistake hoping for new result, may be madness, it also reveals a human life that is strikingly interesting. I had a lot of my perception changed, which is slowly filtering through to my writing. I mention this, because of the link to credibility and repositioning sales and sponsorships, my personal story is more of letting myself be mocked for letting past insult and injury pass without appropriate reply, letting one or other parties believe they had some justification, dint my lack of normal response. Anyhow, it leads me to some interesting angles on human nature, that might be pertinent.
Sorry, I don’t know how auto correct does this when I proofed the thing already, but in Para 4, it’s “Regards keeping a lid”.. not “keeping amid”..
+1
“Do I need to elaborate when Lewis is judged on his earings, rapper friends and lifestyle rather than his talent?”
Another perspective, if I may…
1) I have mentioned, and jokingly ridiculed, Lewis’s earrings in the past. I have because I find them ridiculous. I think it’s funny when a man wears earrings. Be he White, Black, Yellow, Pink or Green. I would mercilessly tease a brother of mine for example. That’s perhaps anti-metro sexual, not racist. I grew up with earrings being for women. I know lots of men have then now, and I laugh… at all of them.
2) Lewis does have many close friends in the music industry, some indeed who rap. Is simply stating that racist? Is pondering the depth of Lewis’s connection to that world racist? Is asking questions about that unique lifestyle / sport cross over racist? I can’t recall any driver that crossed over to that lifestyle so deeply and still was committed to world championship Motorsport before. So I have pondered this with Lewis in the past, and I would ponder it with any driver, be he White, Black, Yellow, Pink or Green. For me the jury is still out on that.
“…the microscope this site places him under speaks volumes about the bias around here.”
I can’t speak for others, but Lewis and Nico are under the microscope this year for me because they are competing for the drivers title. The last four years it was Vettel, Alonso & Webber taking the majority of my microscope time. So for me the microscopic analysis is correlated to championship contention.
Summary:
Now I have only spoken for myself on these points. The point is to convey OTHER potential explainations outside of the “go to” racist explaination as to why those aspects you outline are mentioned about Lewis.
For my part, I am “guilty” of discussing these aspects about Lewis, but it’s because I am a) incapable of accepting all men wear ear jewellery, b) interested in the question of whether high level commitment to a sport can be compromised by any other endeavour or non-sacrificial lifestyle and c) always interested on championship contender microanalysis.
But I am not racist, yet fall foul of all the above aspects you say.
“2) Lewis does have many close friends in the music industry”….
So why are the only ones that they focus on, are the rappers?
Are they trying to say all rappers are bad influence and he should not be seen with any of them?
You know why? It only goes back to the comments made by Ice T. Now, has anyone seen him since? Has one seen them together outside in the public domain?
Will Smith is a rapper, if he was friends with him, would the headlines read…
“Lewis is friends with rapper Will Smith” or would it read…”Lewis is friends with movie star Will Smith”?
I’ve got a saying I always use….
“I’ve got friends and I’ve got associates, not everyone I talk to or seen with in the same place, are my friends”
Disclaimer: just responding to a post and my comments are meant to offend or antagonise anyone.
It does suggest that you think your own cultural basis for thing is the ‘right’ one. I guess everyone must on some level. I mean in some places men chip their front teeth with stones, or tatoo their faces to be more like blokes, un circumcised men are seen as effeminate. We can’t turn what we were brought up with on or off, that easily. However, when we make overt judgements and ridicule people for those differences, then yeah it is a form of racism (though cultural and actual race racism are a bit blurred). Amongst mates and as part of humour, it is acceptable, when there is an understanding that the situation cuts both ways, but judging a bloke for wearing earings… well its just a bit weird to be honest fella? Live and let live man.
It was a point. I was being honest. I don’t care that much about earrings, but I do think it’s funny. My point was that there are other explainations, other prejudices as well, outside racism.
You won’t twist me into being a racist. I simply am not one, and without elaborating any further, I have done too much irl defending others to tolerate that tag.
But yes, I have an archetypical male stereotype in my head, and earrings are not part of it. Neither is lipstick by the way. Nor waxing. Or deck shoes. That also doesn’t make me racist.
It was just a point about being able to talk about the things mentioned, even be critical of them, and not be racist. I note you missed my other points.
I tire of this topic. I won’t defend myself again. Well done Fort|s for introducing the race card again yesterday.
I’m twisting nothing mate, nor attacking you so don’t feel the need to defend. I was just pointed out definitions of racism/prejudice in line with your point, because in this instance its difficult because the prejudice has a bearing on cultural behaviou but it is easy to see how it can stem from race too, so without clarification its hard to know. The prejudices you admit to, seem to stem from intolerance of gender definitions, not skin colour, so no I wouldn’t accuse you of racism now you admit that.
Why is it a bit weird to judge a bloke for his earrings?
I mean, if you concocted some ridiculous conclusion from the fact of them, or wrote of them in a way that was meant overtly to offend, sure then it’s at best weird.
But since when has any public personality not been up for a bit of good humored teasing?
Right, that’s it: I’m off now to seriously study Lewis’s ear adornments, and see if I can discover some insight therein. Is there a psychological link between his choice of earring, and his performance on the day? Can we see his inner self reflected in the cut of the gems he prefers? Do we find, in this most notable of gemological displays, the secret to the man’s private desires? Are there “happy earrings”, and does he have a pair that ring out, for all to see, if only they look closely at the symbolism, a pair that scream “Gerrof my taking line, Nico!”?
I enjoy SIS’s takes on Hamilton and the Hamifosi. They’re funny. How on earth does anyone get from a bit of light reading and jesting, to assumptions of latent or disguised racism?
Once again, I see the accusations are of “latent” or “hidden” racism. That’s it, you see only those who shout out they can see it, can see it!
I’m sure the rest of us all need our sight the better directing, lest we are blinded by the hypnotic refractions of a certain driver’s lobal stones.
🙂
Cheers JoJ.
Incidentally I agree with your take on the Rosberg / Hamilton accident. I said as much in a comment yesterday post Belgium.
As for the racism thing… There is a commenter in here who has form in starting these racism fuelled paranoia fires, who frankly I actually think has revealed himself as one. I held on to the accusation for a while to he sure, but I’m sure of it now.
No names of course. I like most ppl here and don’t want a ban for naming names. Also we all know who he us.
It’s a great website. All places like this have this sort of thing from time to time. It’s the cost of relative freedom that other places won’t afford.
For my part, I’m pretty passionate about racing. Plus my humour is a bit Aussie tongue and cheek sometimes too. Gets lost in translation sometimes… Plus I tend to veer away from the populist F1 opinion and ascertain the facts myself as best I can. I prefer Brundle not to feed them to me you see. In this case, that combo can run into trouble with some Hamilfosi. Not that I mind trouble, but the barrage has been a bit much compared to what was actually said by me, and Judge, and a few others about this incident and Hamilton’s attitude and failings.
Anyway, thanks for the sentiments.
A certain female who has messed with his head gave them to him….
My pleasure, SIS!
Please keep on at the takeoffs of characterization. I reckon it’s a healthy thing, and we should do it more. Only, clearly, some about have no darn sense of humor, or grace to accept BS called out for what it is, in a plain speaking bar.
As it goes, I’ve nearly twenty cousins, between Sydney to Perth, all answering to either my first or second name. I got both, cos, well, it was a hard choice. (hmmm, reckon I came first, bloody plagiarists!!) We’re imaginative our lot.. and why do you send all the metrosexual Aussies over here? Not to mention promoting a clearly batting for the other side “brew” with a blue and gold tin and neer nuff beer in it to slosh a man two weeks in the bush. And if that witter of wordage made no enthnolinguistic sense., you can blame it on the Irish side we got going.. and a powerful thirst all this non talk talk about that driver has worked up in me, on a dribbly wet August bank hol.
I never figured out the etymology of this for a insult, but school days, you’d sidle up to your mate, brew clenched authoritatively, head cocked in surveying recognition of a crime scene, and slur, with a chipper tone of nudge nudge wink wink, don’t worry, I know it’s hard mate, “yer mum!”, just to remind your mate, we all knew he was suspect when it came to paying attention to the ladies. That was pretty much how we greeted each other for years. Parties taking on a Derek and Clive approach to polite intercourse were normal procedure, when there was nothing else left to do. What is it with this seemingly universal humor failure going on? You open up a bar, I mean website, and declare “all welcome, bring your attitude, drinks are cheap, just no brawling or below the belt mind you”, and whatdyaget? “miss, miss, HE, yes hiiiim, heeee, there, over there! yeses miss, he called my favorite driver a baaad word… Miss? Miss? You listening to me miss, I’m going to tell my mom…”. Sorry, kiddo, if nobody cares. That looks like the last keg, and there’s more sparkle in that than twixt your pretty ears.
//I think that’d have come better had I written it after a cold one or three, downright thirsty now, so off I go..
All best SIS,
This HAM fan thinks you do a service. Like I said, more, please!
~joj
@ JoJ
Oh my… I laughed and laughed at that whole comment.
“Yerr Mum”… What a classic.
Good one JoJ.
@ SIS
😉
@SIS: “anti metro sexual” – I wonder if there is another, plainer way you could phrase that?
Here we go…
What else am I CTP.
Still
I will say to you what I said yesterday to Judge and FH
let them trounce themselves, I’ve had enough of it
what’s happening now in F1 boards is what happened in MotoGP boards with those Rossi fans, the only difference is that Rossi fans don’t have the “racist” card to pull, but their fanatic behaviour is essentially the same of hamilton fans.
it’s tough and I don’t have patience for “people” whose life must be so voud, that they try to fill it idolising somebody who doesn’t even know about their existence
— mod notice: some inflamatory passages and double posting removed. Don’t poke the bear —
R/T
I barely noticed it happening, but now I see this boorish brouhaha, I’ve had enough of it already, also.
I’m starting to feel like a minority, you see, (joke, okay, for those out there who are obviously choppy about their less than state of the art comprehension skills) being a Ham fan, who doesn’t give a toss for what he gets up to off the track, or any predilections he has to jewelry… the dogs thing sorta bugged me, because I just thought it was silly. But I just ignore all of this. It’s not important to me, or my appreciation of his racing.
I’m not half way down this thread, and yet there’s barely a word actually relevant to the actual racing. Oh, and FWIW, I think the overtake and wing incident was pretty unfortunate, but I believe Rosberg was bang to rights. I didn’t even get up in arms watching live, just thought “oh, stupid”. My take is that the MB management were also scooped on not knowing what the current rules are, and like a lot of petty people, were most angered by realization of their impotence in real life, on the track. I hope the stewards’ decision rubbed it in, a bit, actually. Reactions like that from Toto and Nikki, do more harm to Hamilton, than anything else I’ve cared to notice lately. Proper shambles, the lot of them.
SIS’s writing has been very enjoyable light relief. I’m all for out and out roasting of drivers, if done with good humor and without malice. More, please. Compared with all of this, a slap in the face would be entertaining. I can’t put my finger on it, but what a awful mish mash of nonsense talk and made up affront. Honestly, I don’t like to use this word, but the attitudes I sense calling out supposed racism are plain puerile.
I felt I made myself quite clear Aiden. This site posts anti Hamilton pieces which to the casual observer seem biased. That bias seems to stem from a dislike of a driver having a rapstar lifestyle rather than his driving ability. Hamilton is young, rich and black and it rubs many the wrong way. Tough. This is not a lifestyle magazine, it is meant to about F1. I just come here to read the comments 🙂
See my post at the bottom please.
Also, yes you have made yourself clear; but you still lack any proof.
This for me is just bringing up your own obvious issues with racism. Do you have difficulty with this in your life?
Not really mate, do you? and what has that got to do with anything? other than justifying your pre conceived box you want to place me in? Is it my name? 😉 I just have a inbuilt sense of fairplay that is always challenged by articles on here. If you constantly berated Kimi for being a monosyblic drunkard I would have the same issues.
monosyllabic*
“Not really mate, do you? and what has that got to do with anything? other than justifying your pre conceived box you want to place me in? Is it my name?
That looks suspiciously like prejudice.
For all we know TheJudge could be Christian/Muslim/Atheist/Agnostic.
“This for me is just bringing up your own obvious issues with racism. Do you have difficulty with this in your life? This looks suspiciously like you are the one prejudging me, hence my comment.
I am in fact a quarter African, a quarter Asian, a quarter Caucasian a quarter Chinese and semi divine….
So basically you’re like a bag of skittles?
Disclaimer: just asking a question and it was not meant to offend or antagonise anyone.
See, you can be funny Fort|s
@TJ13
“I am in fact a quarter African, a quarter Asian, a quarter Caucasian a quarter Chinese and semi divine….”
I myself am half Human, half Martian, and half Na’vi. You just can’t get it wrong.. 🙂
Ok. Seems like we got over the race thing, let’s talk about the race…. Nothing wrong with F1 on track at present…. And we are re-living the halcyon days of a Senna Prost like duel!!!!!
No. We like boring races with nothing to discuss about. F1 these days sucks.
Well let’s put ‘de vinger’ in another dominant race winning car and enjoy the run to the first corner, then switch off and come back a few hrs later to see who came 2nd & 3rd.
I’m going before the hippo comes charging into the room
Where’s the disclaimer? 😛
None needed as he didn’t ask a question.
Disclaimer: I was only making a comment and it wasn’t meant to offend anyone, just to antagonise the hippo 😄
Can only assume the sarcasm is dripping of your comment 😉
I must confess that I am a Hamilton fan. I read the site daily though rarely comment. I work nights so missed the race as was in bed. When I got up and checked autosport it said the Mercs had collided. I had visions of a Senna/Prost style plane crash style accident heading up to Eau Rouge. When I actually looked at it I was almost disappointed to see all the fuss for what little contact there was. I am amazed that it has taken this long for them to hit each other.
My biggest concern is that having been watching F1 for over 20 years the stewards are deciding races, maybe even championships. On Autosport Alonso has said that he didnt think it was a big thing with Magnussun. 20 second penalty later. The cars will be close, sometime will touch. As far as I go unless someone DELIBERATELY drives into someone else or does something completely reckless just leave them to it.
Accidents happen, just leave it at that. For anyone who hasn’t seen it check the clip of the GP3 accident for an example of what can go wrong without cars even touching!
I believe I can fly 😄😄😂
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LIqOUnvTnAM
If Kirchhoefer had turned in, the car might have vaulted his….. unluckily for the new Russian, this was his first time in the GP3 car!
Sorry, but you’re simply twisting the facts in a way you are more racist than any of us as you accuse us of disliking hamilton for racial reasons because we are white – we must be racist after all.
Yes, many of the dislike stems from his off-track actions. Be it disloyalty toward the team, his overly demonstrative lifestyle. He’s trying to be the most prolific and eccentric celebrity in the paddock, not the best driver. At least that’s the perception of many.
In that regard he reminds many of Flavio Briatore and that man certainly won’t win any popularity contest.
But I think you only come here since 2 months or so. This site is pro everyone and against everyone. I suggest reading articles about vettel, last year. Or about kimi this year. Yet it’s only when hamilton is attacked that need to defend him in the comments becomes so high as they are now. Maybe you guys are racist. Look at them white folks talking about a black man. That is out of order…
@Islamshaffi You are an ass. The article defended Rosberg and put into context his actions in the light of Hamilton’s defiance of team instructions…. and previous accusations that his team are cheating and favouring Rosberg… An accusation he repeated more than once in different ways yesterday….
Sure. 😉 and thanks.
My pleasure…. Truly!! B
Now you’re offending my a-hole :-;
I’m not “ASSIST” either
Would Hamilton not be considered primarily ‘mixed’? I am too, however in my opinion this just gives you a wider array for your own cultural identity. It’s not for others to box you in, but for you to see yourself as you see fit. I understand that this might be different in the USA, as there is a much different history there, necessitated by colonisation, than in the UK.
Just to clarify on this whole issue, for anyone thinking that ‘race’ is anything more than simply a cultural construct, please read or watch something by the late Stuart Hall. ‘Race’ does not strictly exist, however ethnicity does. In the genetic sense, there are not ‘races’, only ‘clines’ (populations isolated by distance).
By extension, I find palaeoanthropology fascinating, and the interplay between us, Neanderthals and Denisovans. It is likely that most readers of this blog have DNA from 2 or 3 of these human populations in them. I probably have all 3 – which can provide “Heterozygous advantage”, or a wider gene pool to select your alleles from. There are also more to come, like the recently found ‘Hobbits’, or the Red Deer Cave people found in China.
This also explains why the place humans have existed the longest (Africa) has the most variation, and thus, the fastest runners (from Bolt to Farah). In a racing sense, Max Verstappen’s recent lineage also contains the longest ‘top line racing history’, hence his abilities being almost on a Bolt-like level.
On the continuing presence of racing families, e.g. Bianchi, Magnussen.. Imagine if Ascari had continued a racing family, we’d have had WDC level drivers from the 20/30s, 40/50s, likely to the present day.. but what a shame that we lost Henry Surtees, who was looking much more impressive than Jolyon Palmer at the time, whose dad was similarly a step below John Surtees (who could’ve matched Clark in similar equipment).
To make it clearer – in this context, we can have the best of two populations mixed together (e.g. Hamilton, Rosberg) vs. the best of one long-lived population, which gives higher variation – higher highs, and lower lows (e.g. Schumacher, Vettel for Germany).
To be the best, you need the highest peak, and straddling two long-lived populations can sometimes give you a better chance at combining/making the highest peak of the two. A good example of this would be Barack Obama, whose parents both met at a top US university I believe, and his ancestry is a mix of the best of English and Kenyan.
With the situation as it is in the US, Obama has learned how to ‘exploit/embrace his black origins’ (depending on how you see it. He was actually raised by his English family) and thus attain a double presidency, ahead of the ‘best of one long-lived population’, in this case Hillary Clinton, who found another in Bill Clinton. The USA is really one big melting pot though, even amongst European emigrant clines.
But, is Hamilton trying to do a similar thing with the media? It probably stems from the dominance of American culture on TV, and thus it is no surprise that he linked up with Nicole, who happens to be half-German, rather than someone more media-shy like Leona Lewis (a real singing talent, like Lewis himself for driving). Although it’s entirely possible of course that they just share that same ambition/drive to be successful and recognise that in each other.
Just because several independant people come to a similar conclusion does not mean the point is valid or correct.
The “Is it becuase I am black” comment is referenced to, as I see it, to show Hamiltons less-than-stellar use of the media sometimes.
How you can use that as a racist argument is quite beyond me.
This is from the Daily Mail (Hardly impartial) on that weekend. (May 2011)
“However, it wasn’t long before Hamilton was forced into a humiliating retraction and apology after F1’s governing body, the FIA, suggested he could be charged with bringing the sport into disrepute.
It led to a further meeting with race stewards where the 26-year-old tried to repair the damage.
He added afterwards: ‘What I said was a bit of a joke, which wasn’t funny at the time.
‘I made them [the stewards] aware that when emotions are high, and it’s very intense at the end of those kind of races, you don’t always say the right thing, and the joke didn’t come at the most appropriate time.’
Action: Hamilton was called before the stewards given penalties over two incidents during the race in which he finished sixth
Action: Hamilton was called before the stewards given penalties over two incidents during the race in which he finished sixth
‘So I went there, made that clear to them – we’ve made our peace.”
Even he knew it was a massive faux pas.
I like Daniel Ricciardo because he’s Australian.
I like Daniel because he’s a good driver and has a great attitude and seems apolitical. I disliked Webber for the exact opposite. I am Australian too.
Me too, but be honest, is anyone else waiting for the bubble to burst? I’ll admit it has me waiting longer than I expected, perhaps it will take this years, but half of me is waiting for the situation to return to normal, and Vettel to wipe the floor with him.
Ditto Adam. Vettel is too good for this to continue much longer. I agree.
However I don’t think it’s every going to be as one-sided as it was with Webber.
Well, I hope not, I genuinely hope Dan is as good as he seems, because his no nonsense keep your head up, and let the bullshit wash by is a breath of fresh air. Unlike Raikonnen, Dan seems to be able to do it without being a rude b*stard too.
+1 and a few for good measure, Adam. Dan is a proper breath of fresh air. Good on him. And I think he’ll keep Seb behind him. Sort of guy you want to win. Great attitude, good looking bloke, makes the sport look good. I guess if none of that is sufficient argument, well, that internet word “haters” probably applies, then. I’m not that old, but by the time you’ve seen a few gens pass through the sport, I think you start looking for who makes you feel good about the whole thing. I want someone to point to, as antidote to sniping and griping as picked up from the trash press, by friends who don’t follow the racing.
You racist😂
I was hoping I might draw a more vociferous response (or at least a more vociferous responder) so I could apply the simile that being Australian is as much to do with race as being a rich rapping motor vehicle enthusiast.
In its absence, I’m rather keen this all might die down soon around here, and we can discuss the actual issues of race in F1. Like, the next race will be amazing because Mercedes are proving terrible at race management.
Oh I did.
re Alonso lost hybrid power during
Belgium
he obviously spent the race in the car that was meant for kimi in belgium
good move from ferrari, the results of the experiment say one car is fully(ish) functioning while the other is a bag of bolts 😀
i wondered what mattiaci was doing on the grid at the start lols
Big Lols
1 last post about this Hamilton/Racism discussion.
Shaffi – Your point is that there is an anti-Hamilton bias on this site.
Lets assume that is true for a moment.
“This site has an anti Hamilton bias. All you need do is go through the Hamilton pieces and it is blatant.”
Okay. So this site is anti-Hamilton.
Hamilton is black.
Disliking black people is racist.
Therefore this site is racist.
Pure childish logic. I’m truly stunned you can’t see the alternative.
I’m pretty stunned you can’t see the bias Aiden. This is the only outlet I read that tried to construe yesterdays incident as Hamiltons fault. Laughable, especially coming from racing fans.
20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area, may use the full width of the track during his first move, provided no significant portion of the car attempting to pass is alongside his. Whilst defending in this way the driver may not leave the track without justifiable reason.
For the avoidance of doubt, if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a ‘significant portion’.
I didn’t like the move either, however I try to see both sides.
“20.4 Any driver defending his position on a straight, and before any braking area [..]”
And that’s what’s bothering me: The above applies only to moves on a straight, NOT within in a corner. Magnussen got a penalty for his move on Alonso in the middle of Kemmel straight. The Rosberg/Hamilton incident happened well into Turn 5.
This rule can’t apply in this case, can it?
I agree landroni.
Was posted to show the ambiguity of the rules, not necessarily to prove one way or the other.
I’m lead to believe this is the article Rosberg has had in mind, and has (understandably) hesitated to mention it directly.
Also, watching replays of it myself; Rosberg’s front wing was level with the cockpit at the best of times. It can seem like Hamilton has left no room for Rosberg, and that Nico was driving into a disappearing gap. Both are true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWSwsI0GC90 (wonder if the will work)
My personal opinion is that it was sloppy, and misjudged by both drivers.
@ Shaffi,
Oh, c’mon, really…
That’s such a stretch. If it’s not obvious I never hid the fact, I’m a big Hamilton fan. If the rules allow the man in front to keep a line, the driver behind is dumb to expect allowances. I’m angry he was seemingly unaware of the rule no way had to be given, or i’d be angrier if he thought he was entitled to the space to pass. I’m upset he lost out. But the incident itself got no rise from me whosoever. Live, staring at the screen intently, I almost shrugged my shoulders, “stupid” was what I thought. Stupid.
Nobody was at fault, in terms of racing rules or behavior. Stewards dismissed the incident. All was fine.
However, it is fair to report that Hamilton *was at fault* If And Only If, you consider he was stupid to make the move.
You are, however arguing as if it is a foregone accepted conclusion (which it is not, was never posited or argued by anyone) that Romberg did a naughty thing,
The way you portray it, the only way what you accuse could be true, is if Nico had been right out of order, and everyone here somehow knew that and chose to make out like Hamilton provoked a incident.
None of that is the slightest bit what happened or was said. If you only check back your logic, you should see that also.
Did I say I am a Hamilton fan? Just checking you are aware of that. I’m upset how things are going for him. But, seriously, this is all ridiculous argument, and I am starting to feel, not in particular because of your comments, actually not because of your comments but others, that this website has been marked for attention of the Hamilfosi as needing to be attacked somehow, and smeared. Oh, the odd expletive is used, in comments.., oh, one or two commentators have imprudently and rather rudely taken it out on each other here in the comments when they had better do that outside, please. So we’re all a reprobate horrible lot, a easy target for a slur campaign making us our to be a bigoted racialist website, full of jackasses and rude jocks and no doubt worse.
Sorry, but this place is nothing of the sort. We might need to moderate the language a bit, but no way can I stand by and not repudiate with absolute and genuine conviction your accusation, for it is plain wrong.
Maybe it’s just a bunch of fans upset and looking for a outlet, let off a bit of steam. Hey, I am upset by the result, if not by the on track action. Let off steam, by all means, argue till we’re all blue, know yourself out, debate it till the ocean’s are dry, that’s what the comments threads are for. But quit any talk not letting off about actual racing, please. Nobody wants to be replying to unfounded and genuinely upsetting allegations, such as are levelled lately, in a place meant to be about the simple joy of making tin chariots go damned quick.
—-
On the other hand…
Or has Lewis been suckered by Nikki Laura’s blatant partisanship, towards him?
Now, that would be some set up.. is that a bit of snide, snarly, surreptitious racism, setting the mean up to think he’s go true team behind him?
What *was* the real anger behind Toto and Nikki’s outbursts?
Were they palpitating because they has to hide their real reason fir anger, that they never wanted Lewis to charge like that, to risk the puncture and points loss, to blow the “all to the last” “title fight”?
Hey, honestly I do not know.
But one thing for sure, at least of those I know running this place and those who I most pay attention to among the regulars, contributors and commentators alike, there’s not a darn bit of racism.
I’ve never seen so much talk so remote from any concern as to talk about the action, as I have this weekend. Which totally sucks, and most everybody seems to express similarly that they think it sucks, also. Once this has all died down, and I hope good riddance, will we welcome back the same commenters, when they’ve got good racing things to say? I hope so, and hope it’s not, as I just a little fear, a outburst against this site by self proclaimed fans who, so farm have displayed little understanding of racing in general, and who would probably enjoy sticking around for what’s good here: downright proper give a damn about motor racing. I guess some Hamilfosi might even learn something about their man, by looking at that side they’ve not considered: how good a driver he actually is, which is never unfairly debated, or skimped on, even by his detractors.
Why isn’t anyone talking about the real filth that took place this weekend?
Eddie Jordan reciting poetry…
Lol, that was truly sinful!
I don’t think either program coverage is good, but I might just have to pay for multi room Sky, so I don’t get caught out by Eejay again, whilst grabbing my coffee form the kitchen..
It was hypnotically awful…
I am quietly building up a whole picture of the sponsorship game in F1, for semi professional reasons…
:.. only, when a program opens with that, I mean,.. after THAT… can anyone get the “taste” of those lines from their mind, quick enough to let a sponsor association render its so beautifully crafted and honed message without a sense of being handed a logo strewn press release pulled from a putrefying mess hall slop bin?
TBH honest guys I think I will make like a tree and just leave, we obviously don’t see eye to eye on this and I can’t be bothered bickering. I feel I made my point, so I wish you well and adios!
JS predicts a little Richter scale event at Ferrari today for Monza. @TJ any news on that? Kimi to retire? Or Alonso going to … ?
LdM announcement.
Any estimated time for that?
JS mentioned ‘drivers’ along the lines of “despite being confirmed, there will be change”
Ahhh wow. Looking forward to it!
I think it’s Kimi who will be moving. I’m only taking the view because I think if there’s a Richter Scale Event, it has to be to deal with the overall slump, and there’s only be driver who’s stuck through that, and I believe ALO genuinely wants to win again in red. Therefore, to keep Fernando, I think some significant changes will be instituted. The fitting end to Fernando’s career would surely be to revive their fortunes, and take a double crown. For who else has done so, and how is Alonso viewed now, in the driver ratings stakes?
If so, Fernando has sung his song pitch perfect. He dubbed the team, and got a recognition of his complaint. He’s been waiting a response, but there’s no simple tactical or cosmetic response possible, because of senior management.
Oh, how I wished to see the man risk it with Williams, or even Honda McLaren. But I think he’s invested so much, emotionally, in his drives, that even if he is disgruntled and inclined to leave, even on the brink of deciding a break, he’s cognizant of the personal wrench that will be, and that could affect his concentration the more. Considering the leverage Alonso has, from the universal respect and even adulation, even from other drivers at his level, consider the widely rumored performance clauses that may free him to move sooner than later, and of his own moment in choosing, and forget not his position in the eyes of Italian media, which is ridiculously good, at a time FIAT and Ferrari do not want to lose that impression, for regardless results, they are getting a pass because of Alonso, so the last thing they want to risk is him off at another team, and their car heading backwards… and consider LDiM is at the moment of last call, should he intend to involve with politics.. and rumor he is not in favor as he used to be within the company, for there is a succession under way, albeit slowly..
Therefore, I imagine the nigh impossible: Alonso and Hamilton to drive for Maranello, in the ’15 season. At least Lewis won’t have to repaint his jet, to stay colorfully loyal…
~~
Oh, sure, chances of any such prediction are marginal, at best. I doubt i’d get better odds if I had had some inside track, for I doubt any but a tiniest handful of people will be party to any of this, being maybe the most sensitive decision for Ferrari in a very long time. Oh, let alone the complications of moving Lewis, and what tide that will be risen upon, and what ripples will roll to far distant shores.
Only, what fun that would be, for a lineup, Take Two, versus, well, you look aside and there’s HondaMc, and MB, and Williams, and really and truly, you have to imagine that the driving experience is soundly in the red cars, versus more youthful talent and more recent drivetrain power, Honda also coming with all new PUs, possibly dangerously.
The question is, to my mind only if Lewis has the right approach, or can be fitted in, to bring the Ferrari to the top step again, consistently. I just don’t have a reference point for this, because if there will be tectonic movement in Marenello, possibly there is debate meant to encourage the adaptation of the team to the drivers, more than has been before. If Kimi moans the F14 don’t suit, it’s not the same as if Fernando said the similar, maybe only if he said the exact same thing… I wonder if there is ambush to be more adaptive to driver feedback, that can accommodate input quickly enough to risk talking on Lewis. In any event, I don’t think Kimi is so appreciated, and it might be a political move, to accommodate a refugee from the Brackley borstal for Brawnless bodgers. It would be a statement of confidence, for sure. I feel a little unnerved at the thought.
There’s only one nut stirring up everything and he said he’d leave a few paragraphs ago at 12.11. He came back fairly quickly though….
I never even noticed him, until the last moment. I can hardly believe the whole nonsense now. Maybe sometimes stupid allegations should get the dismissal they deserve. “waffle waffle BS argy somehow you must be racist because total BS logic etc.,” ought better get a simpler reply “Nah, nuts to you”. Was this whole thing hand wringing, because accusations of racism are so horrifying now they can’t but be dealt with like we’re our own inquisition? “forgive me, I shall scrape at my navel until I have bled the sickness from my belly, for there, in my very DNA, there may be, nay, must be, some trace of ancestral slave keeping bigotry”… Or is that the play, how these things work, the false accuser knowing good people feel obliged to wrestle with false debate, the merest hint of a possibility of truth so appalling we rush to the showers to scrub ourselves like Ace Ventura on seeing the picture of the owner of that ring..
Oh, well, all in a day on the internet!
@JoJ
“scrub ourselves like Ace Ventura on seeing the picture of the owner of that ring..”
That shower scene… man… that scene was one of the greatest peices of cinema. And that’s close to the purest reaction, isn’t it? Being tricked, then the realisation. Him mixed the horror and comedy most men would identify with. I laughed so hard I near lost control of my bodily functions.
In terms of cinema, It’s purity and the ability of a make to identify is up there with Rhett walking out on Scarlet, right at the end. “…I don’t give a damn.” Wow, pure, he’s way over it. Talk about high maintenance. Eye roll, ignore the tears, walk out. You’ve been had, for far too long sort of thing.
But that Ace scene. The horror, the terror, then the shower. LMAO! 😀
“Dmitry, team Dmitry, yes… this call IS friendly …. look, Dmitry, if this call wasn’t friendly, do you think I would be making this call?”
Off top of my head for the quote, but President Mervin Muffley (Peter Sellers), calling the Russian Premier, on account, err, they seem to have lost a B-52 beyond the failsafe point, on account the CRM-114 Discriminator was bust, and they couldn’ty send the recall code. Dr. Strangelove, you knew it.
When I was at school, they just build one flaming expensive new science block, and the electronics lab was great. Well, great if you figured out how to sneak in parts orders on the technician’s order code… now half the kids at this school were there in force, representative of major shipping dynasties or the like, and the other half, into which I certainly fell, were characterized by parents who got bust being Lloyds “names” or were on their second mortgage to pay the fees. So Peanut and I, I think I can claim this idea, read those Practical Electronics magazines. You know, with the circuit board patterns for “miniature FM transmitters” for “experimental projects”*, and, oh I better be careful, for statute of limitations doesn’t apply like that in the UK, but let’s say we sold rather a few projects to paranoid scions of Greek and Arab magnates’ offspring. I knew we’d cracked it, when a mode, was brought back with problems, probably my lousy soldering, hey I can solder good, but man, when you’re trying to conceal the goodies you side ordered “unofficially” that are strewn across your bench, it’s hard to concentrate sometimes… anyhow, so we’re getting nip and a refund demanded (I feel guilty, I’d insisted we apply a normal retail markup which was insane, like those “spy shops” did, heck one of those had their shop on Park Lane.. think lots of zeros, only our input costs were mostly time ) so we never had the flickers to hand back a refund, and I blurted out “I got it, it’s the CRM-114 Discriminator”, and Peanut barely catching his gut making a rapid exit from his teeth, managed with a voice I can only describe as the moment a 13yr old’s treble voice finally broke, “Yes, that would be it, joj, that’s serious, we hadn’t considered the reflections of the antennae array descrambling… I think… I think [hapless customer’s] bought the wrong thing, he needs to pay us for the PHASE antennae..” thank the lord for shock, or i’d not have been able to take the guys fifty quid… I dramatist only the slightest bit, it happened.
* They’d sell issues with printed PCBs on the cover, and another issue with the parts, and they were designed not to work, because if they worked, they’d fall foul of the radio laws. Frankly, they were lousy, just minimum theoretical designs with no though to verifying. But the circuits weren’t so bad, and consider we had far better kit to make over PCBs to hand, and could order better components, fix things like grounding and so on that allowed the designs to function..
Don’t you feel there’s a bit of “gentlemen, you can’t fight in here, this is the WAR room!” going on at MB?
Next stop: Me, Myself and Irene, the hapless tale of a black racer who accepts he has three white managers, just like it was normal…
Argh, autocorrect, how does it pull “team Dmitry” off, I have no idea what meant now, that throws me so much..
But forgive my waffle, I think Me Myself and Irene has much to teach us, going ahead…
@site admin
What’s with all these broken threads? I thought this was happening at >100 posts, but today we’re well below that..
“@site admin
What’s with all these broken threads? I thought this was happening at >100 posts, but today we’re well below that..”
Because the judge deleted some comments. That messes up the threads.
Maybe it’s better to not just delete the comments, but simply blank them with a moderation note. More transparent, and no broken threads..
That’s exactly what will be implemented.
Agreed….
Yup. WordPress has no concept of neatness, I will not even consider thinking of it in programmatic terms, when it comes to databases. Reason 946249576242643 or whatever, why nobody gets wordpress to do cool stuff for otherwise hoped for site upgrades. Universal problem, working on it for other reasons.
RE: Vettel – Ice Bucket Challenge
“I think I’ll skip the shower and just give a donation,” he is quoted by the Swiss newspaper Blick.
Haha, yep. I’d do exactly the same thing. I was actually wondering the other day if anyone would be brave enough to turn it down and simply donate good money.
My comment will be buried in today hot conversations but I cannot resist to mention something I found of maximum interest about the Red Bulls: during the past 4 seasons, the car was designed to be quick through the corners, and it proved the point smashing the competition while being one of the slowest cars on the straights as demonstrated by the speed traps.
This year, not only they started in an awful way from the point of view of the engine, or engine-chassis fit, or whatever, but they are both good in the corners and very quick on the straights, as demsonstrated.
OTOH, Ferrari seems to have gone the completely wrong way for 2014. They are now not that quick on the straights and, at the same time, they are suffering from reliability issues (for several races this year Alonso has complained about the electrical power unit not working, or the kers, or the battery yesterday).
Problem with playing catchup Regis – Ferrari now have a Red Bull from last year… Red Bull now have a faster car in the straights and corners because they are attacking (development) and not playing catchup. For me that says they have direction and leadership in the design department whereas Ferrari does not have this.
I agree completely, Don_Quixote. Shame on Ferrari!
“Professional racing drivers are rubbish after they become parents”.
A guy at work coughed up that idea in relation to Seb and Massa. “Too old, too slow, too Dad.”
I’m not going to pretend to follow the personal lives of drivers in any depth at all so I have no defensible comment to make. Are there any stats / ancedotes to support this assertion?
Wonder how Schumi won his WDC then? According to Wikipedia his daughter was born in 1997 and his son in 1999. Still got 5 more during/after …
Grosjean improved no end! Although that was also with the mental help of JYS..
Danilo, Bruznic, any other German speaker: what does the German press have to say about yesterday’s incident?
re Ricciardo gone hunting
i read that the fia may get involved in the intra-team battle at mercedes, the parallels between this year and 2007 would be pretty hard to ignore for ricciardo and red bull, he is closer than raikkonen was at this point, can red bull be ahead of williams in monza, does lightening strike twice, am i dreaming 🙂
Gosh! This blog is turning into the rewriting of a french’s blog!
And believe you me, I know what I’m talking about!
the real culprit is : Niki Lauda! Wolff is a peon!
They should never have let go of Ross Brawn! amen
My god, it appear that way to many commenting here have been watching way too many made for TV “reality” shows.
Lay off all the agonizing and get back to enjoying the actual real racing.
Lol. Comment of the week!!!!
we will, once Rosberg allows Hamilton to do more than a lap or two before taking him out or blocking his pole run, so there’s some really racing to watch!
lol…just kidding 😉